ES Forum Archive > Morrowind Mods > Open Morrowind
no, thank you for bringing it!
Impressive. Basically an alternative game exe
It's one of Yacoby's projects. There's a thread here somewhere...
* Swiveller *
Oops - that was not, erm, entirely correct. See http://www.ogre3d.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=41897.
* Swiveller *
Oops - that was not, erm, entirely correct. See http://www.ogre3d.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=41897.
This is great!!!
Since i highly doubt Bethesda will ever release the engine to the general public then this is the next best thing. If they see it through to the end it may be one of the best things to happen to morrowind "EVER".
As long as its not borked and doesn't use CPU cycles for breakfast like the official engine whoevers doing it will offically become my new best friend.
Since i highly doubt Bethesda will ever release the engine to the general public then this is the next best thing. If they see it through to the end it may be one of the best things to happen to morrowind "EVER".
As long as its not borked and doesn't use CPU cycles for breakfast like the official engine whoevers doing it will offically become my new best friend.
It's the future of tes3.
QUOTE(PirateLord @ Aug 6 2008, 08:16 AM) 
Impressive. Basically an alternative game exe
It is like in alpha development stages.
QUOTE(Lord Udedenkz @ Aug 6 2008, 02:25 PM)
It is like in alpha development stages.
i'm willing to wait. I've been playing Morrowind for 4-5 years, whats a couple more?
QUOTE(Lord Udedenkz @ Aug 6 2008, 03:25 PM)
It is like in alpha development stages.
Err, yes, I know, I can read.
Very cool but won't we have TES5 or 6 by the time it's done?
Maybe. But so what? Morrowind will still be a great game.
QUOTE(Holycannoli @ Aug 6 2008, 09:09 AM)
Very cool but won't we have TES5 or 6 by the time it's done?
Well... that might be true. Also, this person might give up. Which ever will be the case, revealing this project to a larger audience will help.
Interesting. Hopefully it can improve the lighting system, and even possibly make the combat exciting *crosses fingers*
Says it can handle player created content....I just hope that that is true with little to no bugs...... this certainly sounds cool though.
QUOTE(Von Djangos @ Aug 6 2008, 05:38 PM)
Interesting. Hopefully it can improve the lighting system, and even possibly make the combat exciting *crosses fingers*
MOAR SKILLS
Personally I'm hoping for more soul gems.
Oh, wow, this is very nice!
It's always been a problem for modders that "the hardcoded aspects of the game prevent X," and now we're rebuilding an engine that will remove those limitations! Very ambitious, but with potential bordering on the limitless if it achieves it's goals. It doesn't matter if TES6 will be out by the time this is done; if Beth continues in OB's footsteps and this rebuild achieves it's goals, OpenMW will be the superior game anyway
.
Is this really one of Fliggerty's projects? Not to say that I'd doubt his ability, but the man never ceases to amaze
.
Also, I like your new avvie, Lord Ude
.
It's always been a problem for modders that "the hardcoded aspects of the game prevent X," and now we're rebuilding an engine that will remove those limitations! Very ambitious, but with potential bordering on the limitless if it achieves it's goals. It doesn't matter if TES6 will be out by the time this is done; if Beth continues in OB's footsteps and this rebuild achieves it's goals, OpenMW will be the superior game anyway
.Is this really one of Fliggerty's projects? Not to say that I'd doubt his ability, but the man never ceases to amaze
.Also, I like your new avvie, Lord Ude
.
Looks cool hmmkee
QUOTE(SneakyNinjaOtter @ Aug 6 2008, 09:54 AM)
Oh, wow, this is very nice!
It's always been a problem for modders that "the hardcoded aspects of the game prevent X," and now we're rebuilding an engine that will remove those limitations! Very ambitious, but with potential bordering on the limitless if it achieves it's goals. It doesn't matter if TES6 will be out by the time this is done; if Beth continues in OB's footsteps and this rebuild achieves it's goals, OpenMW will be the superior game anyway .
Is this really one of Fliggerty's projects? Not to say that I'd doubt his ability, but the man never ceases to amaze .
Also, I like your new avvie, Lord Ude .
It's always been a problem for modders that "the hardcoded aspects of the game prevent X," and now we're rebuilding an engine that will remove those limitations! Very ambitious, but with potential bordering on the limitless if it achieves it's goals. It doesn't matter if TES6 will be out by the time this is done; if Beth continues in OB's footsteps and this rebuild achieves it's goals, OpenMW will be the superior game anyway
.Is this really one of Fliggerty's projects? Not to say that I'd doubt his ability, but the man never ceases to amaze
.Also, I like your new avvie, Lord Ude
.For now it looks fine. I wander what hardware the guy has. Fliggerty seems to have some superior screenshtos, but I just stumbled across this one thanks to google and I still kinda can't comprehend that there might be two projects that rebuild Morrowind.
It seems early in the development, so for now, the closest graphical enhancement will be from liztail's upgrade to MGE.
Also, here is a full resolution of the image I used to make an avatar from.
QUOTE(Holycannoli @ Aug 6 2008, 04:09 PM)
Very cool but won't we have TES5 or 6 by the time it's done?
Who cares?
It's Morrowind which many people seem to prefer, even among those who have played Oblivion.
I've downloaded it to try it out on Kubuntu, half-hoping (from my point of view) that it doesn't work, and that i have to continue to re-boot in order to play it, the only way that i can actually get some work done.
Man, it feels like Morrowind will go on forever!
Thank you for bringing this project to light.
Thank you for bringing this project to light.
it won't be the future of tes3 - it's the future of tes : we already have enough mods to creat an alternative esm to create a game that has nothing to do with morrowind.
The beauty about this approach is that as better hardware becomes available we can increase aspects of the game respectively. Software aswell. Only recently has Havok become freely available for non-commercial use. This wasn't so when MW wasn't being developed and the modular aspect means as new physics/AI/rendering engines become available they could possibly be switched out.
Personally, I'm hoping for a seamless walk from one side of Vv to the other and the integration of internal and external cells so I can knock people through windows that break and see inside.
Personally, I'm hoping for a seamless walk from one side of Vv to the other and the integration of internal and external cells so I can knock people through windows that break and see inside.
Very cool.
The thing I'm hoping for most, is if they can recode MW to make it take more efficient use of of system resources. Having a rig that runs OB basically flawless with most every visual enhancement stuck into it, it's quite a shame to see MW lag off of hardly anything. I imagine this to be quite a tall order, though.
I guess my expectations are a little limited in scope when compared to everyone elses. I'm just hoping to be able to walk through Balmora Expanded without waiting five minutes between each step. 
Stupid computer.
Stupid computer.
I wonder if the author visits this forum
QUOTE(SneakyNinjaOtter @ Aug 6 2008, 10:54 AM)
Is this really one of Fliggerty's projects? Not to say that I'd doubt his ability, but the man never ceases to amaze .
.It's tbrick's project.
QUOTE(Falc @ Aug 6 2008, 01:36 PM)
I wonder if the author visits this forum
And he is on this forum.
QUOTE(PirateLord @ Aug 6 2008, 09:35 AM)
Err, yes, I know, I can read.
That reaction just made my day.
But in response to the project as a whole, I would have to say that it's certainly worth the wait. Speaking as an one of the older members of these forums, I'll probably always come back to morrowind, no matter how old and disgusting I become in the future. It's an incredible game, and when it was first released, the concept of the thing was absolutely unheard of, which naturally caught my interest almost immediately. But all in all, I think that when this comes out, the door for new possibilites will become something more similar to a gigantic hole in the wall, probably large enough to fit roughly 10 or so buses to enter or exit. But beyond metaphors, I'm greatly looking forward to seeing the creations by the artists here once it comes to a much more final stage, and I can guarantee that I'll be around to see it go through or fail. Some things will always be worth the wait, and quite frankly, this is the only game I've found that I can apply that to.
I enjoy this.
I do hope it sees it's way to completion.
I do hope it sees it's way to completion.
Wow. I never thought that this would happen. Did I mention Wow?
Yes very interesting. To be able to utilize more recent software that works well with modern hardware is a great step.
With this and TR maps to hopefully look forward to some day in the future we'll still be playing for a long time to come.
One for the ES bookmark folder.
With this and TR maps to hopefully look forward to some day in the future we'll still be playing for a long time to come.
One for the ES bookmark folder.
Honestly, aside from some small things I wish could be done (like physics, which is already planned to be implemented), I only ask for climbing (tomb raider style! ) and where rain doesn't come through solid objects, like awnings.
) and where rain doesn't come through solid objects, like awnings.
Hi, I'm the author of OpenMW, and I just found this thread. Thanks for the interest!
Just to clear it up: I am neither Yacoby nor Fliggerty. I've talked to Yacoby about his project though (which it seems he is not continuing), and he has given me his source code. The best thing is that we've been working on completely different parts of the engine, so soon we will have the combined feature set of both.
BTW: If anyone's got a link to Fliggerty's project I'd appreciate it.
Oh, and all the ideas posted here are being noted I'm keeping track of this thread now, so if you have suggestions for the project I'm interested in hearing them!
Just to clear it up: I am neither Yacoby nor Fliggerty. I've talked to Yacoby about his project though (which it seems he is not continuing), and he has given me his source code. The best thing is that we've been working on completely different parts of the engine, so soon we will have the combined feature set of both.
BTW: If anyone's got a link to Fliggerty's project I'd appreciate it.
Oh, and all the ideas posted here are being noted
I'm keeping track of this thread now, so if you have suggestions for the project I'm interested in hearing them!
QUOTE(tbrick @ Aug 7 2008, 08:52 AM)
Hi, I'm the author of OpenMW, and I just found this thread. Thanks for the interest!
Just to clear it up: I am neither Yacoby nor Fliggerty. I've talked to Yacoby about his project though (which it seems he is not continuing), and he has given me his source code. The best thing is that we've been working on completely different parts of the engine, so soon we will have the combined feature set of both.
Just to clear it up: I am neither Yacoby nor Fliggerty. I've talked to Yacoby about his project though (which it seems he is not continuing), and he has given me his source code. The best thing is that we've been working on completely different parts of the engine, so soon we will have the combined feature set of both.
An unexpected bonus for you!
If you can just get better loading time, FPS and stablility, everyone will bow down to you, kick out vivec and make you a god.
Anything else after that is a bonus.
I'd like a bit of better ragdoll psyhics (not objects) and weather effects (the rain and snow).
Including better AI and extra features along that line would cause problems, since then people would have to make two different versions of their mods for the vanilla game and the openmw game.
More skills and scripted spells by the sake of God
Hi tbrick, and Welcome. 
I'll be honest, i will be perfectly happy if you can pull this off, and Morrowind will run just as it is.
I have a feeling that all the suggested 'improvements' will add much time to the project.
I wish you all the best with your undertaking.
I'll be honest, i will be perfectly happy if you can pull this off, and Morrowind will run just as it is.
I have a feeling that all the suggested 'improvements' will add much time to the project.
I wish you all the best with your undertaking.
While I remember it, and although my code didn't implement it, I think it might be worth while adding it, is to keep the player at 0,0,0, or as close to it as possible, as then you don't get the floating point accuracy issues with the cpu/gpu that you get when a mod adds cells a long way out from the origin.
There is a Ogre scene mgr that does it, still in development iirc, and the guy that made it just moved the world root node rather than the player. I don't recall a noticeable performance hit, but I may be wrong
There is a Ogre scene mgr that does it, still in development iirc, and the guy that made it just moved the world root node rather than the player. I don't recall a noticeable performance hit, but I may be wrong
Really interesting project, I'm looking forward to reading more about it!
Welcome to the boards, Tbrick, I wish you all the best with this project.
Welcome to the boards, Tbrick, I wish you all the best with this project.
Also proper script debuger would be useful, aiming for functionally of VS 2005 or GCC
QUOTE(tbrick @ Aug 7 2008, 02:52 AM)
I'm keeping track of this thread now, so if you have suggestions for the project I'm interested in hearing them!
OK
1
enlarge the display ability of ingame map. so that player can see whole size of big land mod such as "tamriel rebuild map1".
or add an ability to make demision space map such as the way of tes4 silver island expasion stand.
2
better graphic but not high end system required. at least not high above tes4. such as new shader support [like to see a new night eye effect]. better shadow for both npc/creature and buildings ....because in the origanal game only npc/creature have shadow, buildings and items have no shadow.
3
expand modding ability. add buildin script functions to expand script ability. such as "get button pressed x" [detect whether player pressed x button in his/her keyboard] because there is only a few key can be used in game.
4
the ability of cast spell by simple press right mouse while your weapon equiped [remove ready spell mode]. just the way tes4 oblivion offered.
5
better npc/creature AI. cat chass rat. wolf chaese sheep. two bandit clan fight each other while complete ignored player.
6
more stability. such as can handle 20 npc fight each other without a CTD.
7
release an update version each month. [now near a month since 0.3 come out
]
QUOTE(tbrick @ Aug 7 2008, 04:52 PM)
I'm keeping track of this thread now, so if you have suggestions for the project I'm interested in hearing them!
Great project Tbrick!
From this dead topic (Morrowind Engine Update), you may find interesting ideas:
http://www.bethsoft.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=693125
http://www.bethsoft.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=844213
QUOTE
THE MOST WANTED :
- Improved 3D engine for better performances: DirectX 8/9 compatibility or MGE integration, AA/AF support, better LOD culling and management, occlusion culling, seamless land (when any texture replacer is used). Important: some video/3D features should be optional (having various setting levels) so people with older video cards will still be able to play without frustration.
- Greater stability and overhall performance: improved CPU and memory usage (a lot less ingame loading necessary; no memory leaks or self-ever expanding save game to a point they corrupt themselves and crash the game)
- Support for dual-core CPU. (and quad)
- Better view distance (Far view distance via LOD terrain ala Oblivion; increased draw distance)
- MGE and MWE functions integration
- MWSE integration or new scripting features and scripted spell function (Goto, Arrays, ArrayLists, "Short DontWipeData", stop streammusic, GetMagickaGetRatio and GetFatigueGetRatio, Player get attacked easy detection, interop functions, like MWSE's pipe commands)
- New slots for animations
- Additional spell effects (including spells without visible effects and without "icon").
- Several bug fixes :
1. Turn Undead (and similar) spell fix (it is not effective)
2. Mercantile fixed
3. the 34th variable fix (When you write scripts with ore than 34 variable, the 34th variable variable of any kind won't work)
4. Unarmored skill fix (not effective if the player is not wearing at least one piece of armor)
5. 72 hours "bug" (not really a bug according to a few modders, but very annoying) fix for companions (may be fixed by just adding "Short DontWipeData")
6. Music/Sound fix (when music is set to 0 in the settings, it often start again in full volume when fighting; and when "streammusic" command is used once in a script, the volume is automatically set back to max level)
7. Fix lost object problem (such as companions being lost to the game or generating "can't find referenced object" type errors when another mod makes changes to the starting cell).
8. There is a bug in Morrowind whereby becoming a vampire whilst being affected by fortify skill/attribute effects leads to an inflated vampire bonus in that skill/attribute. This is because the vampire abilities multiply skills/attributes rather than adding to them.
9. Fix problems with dialogue order when dialogue is added to top/bottom of existing topic/greeting.
10. The alpha-channel problem should be fixed (for inventory paper doll, water, invisiblity spells, etc.) and fixing the problems with multiple alpha textures, so that alph-textured armor, clothing and weapons don't dissapear under water.
VERY WANTED
- Larger in-game map perimeter (to make the in-game map always working/visible, even when a mod add cells far from Vvardenfell; presently, the map is limited to Cell X=-32,+32 et Y=-32,+32, outside this limit the mini map won't work)
- Ability to play Animation on the PC and/or easier replacement of individual animations.
- Smoothed animation transitions (with no jump from one pose to another)
- Ability to add/create new spells with new effects (including spells with invisible effects or no effects).
- Support for new physiqued meshes with reflection maps
- Diffuse maps and bump mapping
- Ability to apply shaders to materials and the screen
- A better journal quest (an upgrade to the Journal system so that you have the option of ONLY viewing entries not associated with any specific quest - Stuff like Journal Enhanced!)
- String variables, and ability to get, store and use IDs (as in "var1->StartCombat var2")
- Ability to use variables with SetLevel and many other functions that don't accept vars now (including those that would become possible with string vars).
- Ability to select and move more than one inventory object at a time, without fuss.
- Ability to start music combat only after the first real attack from an hostile (and not when an hostile is near, because there is no suprise).
- Better path-finding for AI in NPCs.
- Possibility for ground textures to be placed in any order without the edge-blending glitching (this would enable a huge amount more freedom to modders and devs in making realist and pleasing scenery).
- Possibility to use any body model for each character, and to allow each character to have it's own size settings, instead of all characters of the same race being exactly the same size (this would require no new meshes).
- Sound enhancement (3D sound or Digital Sound 5.1 capability).
- New clothing slots - maybe for visible clothing that doesn't replace a body part, if that's possible.
- No aggressive (and costly) CD copy protection (to avoid damaging CD-rom drive).
EXTRA (those would be much more than an engine update)
- Animations for riding animals, and for greeting, and animations for NPCs performing everyday actions and
job-related tasks need to be provided and used by the AI (such things as chopping, stiring, carrying, pushing,
pulling, sweeping, picking things up, putting things down, etc.).
- Additional face and head animations added.
Update for Construction Set
- Construction Set bug fixes :
1. When rendering the bounding box it doesn't take into account the scale of the Nif file even though it renders it at the right size.
2. Using polygon strips tends to cause it to crash, even though these objects work in the game.
3. Fixing the CTD that occurs when loading a mod with an .esm dependancy on anything other than MW+TR+BM
4. Fixing the bug that occurs the rotations of items to 'freak out' per se when altered in game (ie, Dwemer cranks)
5. Easy-click facility: when looking at an item in a container, to be able to click the item to open its edit window. When looking at an enchanted item, to be able to click the enchantment to view the effects. I looking at a script activated by something, to be able to click the script name to view the script. This kind of linking would be very helpful when using the CS to check things.
- new filters in the TESCS (for dialogs?) and a more complete find/search feature
Our question to Bethesda is : is there anything you can easily implement in Morrowind engine from this list? Could you consider any engine update if many players are ready to pay the price?
- Improved 3D engine for better performances: DirectX 8/9 compatibility or MGE integration, AA/AF support, better LOD culling and management, occlusion culling, seamless land (when any texture replacer is used). Important: some video/3D features should be optional (having various setting levels) so people with older video cards will still be able to play without frustration.
- Greater stability and overhall performance: improved CPU and memory usage (a lot less ingame loading necessary; no memory leaks or self-ever expanding save game to a point they corrupt themselves and crash the game)
- Support for dual-core CPU. (and quad)
- Better view distance (Far view distance via LOD terrain ala Oblivion; increased draw distance)
- MGE and MWE functions integration
- MWSE integration or new scripting features and scripted spell function (Goto, Arrays, ArrayLists, "Short DontWipeData", stop streammusic, GetMagickaGetRatio and GetFatigueGetRatio, Player get attacked easy detection, interop functions, like MWSE's pipe commands)
- New slots for animations
- Additional spell effects (including spells without visible effects and without "icon").
- Several bug fixes :
1. Turn Undead (and similar) spell fix (it is not effective)
2. Mercantile fixed
3. the 34th variable fix (When you write scripts with ore than 34 variable, the 34th variable variable of any kind won't work)
4. Unarmored skill fix (not effective if the player is not wearing at least one piece of armor)
5. 72 hours "bug" (not really a bug according to a few modders, but very annoying) fix for companions (may be fixed by just adding "Short DontWipeData")
6. Music/Sound fix (when music is set to 0 in the settings, it often start again in full volume when fighting; and when "streammusic" command is used once in a script, the volume is automatically set back to max level)
7. Fix lost object problem (such as companions being lost to the game or generating "can't find referenced object" type errors when another mod makes changes to the starting cell).
8. There is a bug in Morrowind whereby becoming a vampire whilst being affected by fortify skill/attribute effects leads to an inflated vampire bonus in that skill/attribute. This is because the vampire abilities multiply skills/attributes rather than adding to them.
9. Fix problems with dialogue order when dialogue is added to top/bottom of existing topic/greeting.
10. The alpha-channel problem should be fixed (for inventory paper doll, water, invisiblity spells, etc.) and fixing the problems with multiple alpha textures, so that alph-textured armor, clothing and weapons don't dissapear under water.
VERY WANTED
- Larger in-game map perimeter (to make the in-game map always working/visible, even when a mod add cells far from Vvardenfell; presently, the map is limited to Cell X=-32,+32 et Y=-32,+32, outside this limit the mini map won't work)
- Ability to play Animation on the PC and/or easier replacement of individual animations.
- Smoothed animation transitions (with no jump from one pose to another)
- Ability to add/create new spells with new effects (including spells with invisible effects or no effects).
- Support for new physiqued meshes with reflection maps
- Diffuse maps and bump mapping
- Ability to apply shaders to materials and the screen
- A better journal quest (an upgrade to the Journal system so that you have the option of ONLY viewing entries not associated with any specific quest - Stuff like Journal Enhanced!)
- String variables, and ability to get, store and use IDs (as in "var1->StartCombat var2")
- Ability to use variables with SetLevel and many other functions that don't accept vars now (including those that would become possible with string vars).
- Ability to select and move more than one inventory object at a time, without fuss.
- Ability to start music combat only after the first real attack from an hostile (and not when an hostile is near, because there is no suprise).
- Better path-finding for AI in NPCs.
- Possibility for ground textures to be placed in any order without the edge-blending glitching (this would enable a huge amount more freedom to modders and devs in making realist and pleasing scenery).
- Possibility to use any body model for each character, and to allow each character to have it's own size settings, instead of all characters of the same race being exactly the same size (this would require no new meshes).
- Sound enhancement (3D sound or Digital Sound 5.1 capability).
- New clothing slots - maybe for visible clothing that doesn't replace a body part, if that's possible.
- No aggressive (and costly) CD copy protection (to avoid damaging CD-rom drive).
EXTRA (those would be much more than an engine update)
- Animations for riding animals, and for greeting, and animations for NPCs performing everyday actions and
job-related tasks need to be provided and used by the AI (such things as chopping, stiring, carrying, pushing,
pulling, sweeping, picking things up, putting things down, etc.).
- Additional face and head animations added.
Update for Construction Set
- Construction Set bug fixes :
1. When rendering the bounding box it doesn't take into account the scale of the Nif file even though it renders it at the right size.
2. Using polygon strips tends to cause it to crash, even though these objects work in the game.
3. Fixing the CTD that occurs when loading a mod with an .esm dependancy on anything other than MW+TR+BM
4. Fixing the bug that occurs the rotations of items to 'freak out' per se when altered in game (ie, Dwemer cranks)
5. Easy-click facility: when looking at an item in a container, to be able to click the item to open its edit window. When looking at an enchanted item, to be able to click the enchantment to view the effects. I looking at a script activated by something, to be able to click the script name to view the script. This kind of linking would be very helpful when using the CS to check things.
- new filters in the TESCS (for dialogs?) and a more complete find/search feature
Our question to Bethesda is : is there anything you can easily implement in Morrowind engine from this list? Could you consider any engine update if many players are ready to pay the price?
All these suggestions were made by the forum community.
More skills or an easier form to make new skills.Also new spell effects,scripte or not,and summoning everything:
For example:
Summon explosive rat(lichcraft)
Make an npc go suicide and get his soul(like children of the night)
Summon warms of insects,arms-of-the-earth,etc
For example:
Summon explosive rat(lichcraft
)Make an npc go suicide and get his soul(like children of the night)
Summon warms of insects,arms-of-the-earth,etc
The highest priority for me would be new animations!
Honestly, firstly we need 100% recreated old MW engine, then let's think obout improvements
Also,maybe a new hud with supoort for companion's life,and new 1st person animations
QUOTE
Fixing the CTD that occurs when loading a mod with an .esm dependancy on anything other than MW+TR+BM
Here's how to fix this.
I've made some patches for an old copy of MCA. If I load the patches to tweak them further, I get a CTD. But, if I load the ESM first, and then reload with the ESP active, it doesn't CTD.
QUOTE(SneakyNinjaOtter @ Aug 6 2008, 08:54 AM)
Is this really one of Fliggerty's projects? Not to say that I'd doubt his ability, but the man never ceases to amaze ..
..
QUOTE(Lord Udedenkz @ Aug 6 2008, 09:34 AM)
For now it looks fine. I wander what hardware the guy has. Fliggerty seems to have some superior screenshtos, but I just stumbled across this one thanks to google and I still kinda can't comprehend that there might be two projects that rebuild Morrowind.
Umm...there aren't.
QUOTE(tbrick @ Aug 7 2008, 12:52 AM)
Just to clear it up: I am neither Yacoby nor Fliggerty. I've talked to Yacoby about his project though (which it seems he is not continuing), and he has given me his source code. The best thing is that we've been working on completely different parts of the engine, so soon we will have the combined feature set of both.
BTW: If anyone's got a link to Fliggerty's project I'd appreciate it.
BTW: If anyone's got a link to Fliggerty's project I'd appreciate it.
I'd love to have a link to my project. I'd like to know who the Fliggerty imposter is.
I get a kick out of the fact that whenever something really ambitious is begun people always assume I'm the one doing it! 
No, I'm afraid this has nothing to do with me. We'll leave this one up to those who actually know what they are doing, m'kay?
Good luck with this project tbrick!
I just tried a download the WinXP, 29 Mb version and run the EXE file;
NoGo, there are things missing, files not found.
Has anyone tried successfully?
NoGo, there are things missing, files not found.
Has anyone tried successfully?
Aldert: What files does it complain about, what error messages do you get?
Fliggerty: Thanks for clearing that up
BTW, I agree with several people here that the first priority should be to recreate the original game (except the bugs of course ). However there's definitely no harm in planning and thinking about the future. Thanks for all the suggestions so far!
Fliggerty: Thanks for clearing that up
BTW, I agree with several people here that the first priority should be to recreate the original game (except the bugs of course
). However there's definitely no harm in planning and thinking about the future. Thanks for all the suggestions so far!
So, if I get this correctly...it's a version of Morrowind that...uses different source code? Does it still need the .exe to work?
QUOTE(Aldert @ Aug 7 2008, 09:42 AM)
I just tried a download the WinXP, 29 Mb version and run the EXE file;
NoGo, there are things missing, files not found.
Has anyone tried successfully?
NoGo, there are things missing, files not found.
Has anyone tried successfully?
Yes, but I had to move a dx dll as per the read me.
Glad to see you found the forums, tbrick. Welcome.
QUOTE(Roaming Nomad @ Aug 7 2008, 05:38 PM)
So, if I get this correctly...it's a version of Morrowind that...uses different source code? Does it still need the .exe to work?
Nop, diffrent exe
QUOTE(Roaming Nomad @ Aug 7 2008, 08:38 AM)
So, if I get this correctly...it's a version of Morrowind that...uses different source code? Does it still need the .exe to work?
It appears it uses Morrowind... assets, shall we say, but renders those assets using entirely open-source software; making the game cross-platform or "platform agnostic". Since I'm a Linux user, my Windows install is still around for exactly ONE reason and one reason ONLY -- and that's gaming. Get TES: III, IV up and running (without any freakin' Wine dependencies) and I'll erect a small but tasteful shrine in your honor. You will walk with the Immortals.
QUOTE(Bahamut @ Aug 7 2008, 09:03 AM)
Nop, diffrent exe
Alright, cool.
From the screens, definitely needs to be polished. But certainly coming along very nicely.
QUOTE(Aldert @ Aug 7 2008, 04:42 PM)
I just tried a download the WinXP, 29 Mb version and run the EXE file;
NoGo, there are things missing, files not found.
Has anyone tried successfully?
NoGo, there are things missing, files not found.
Has anyone tried successfully?
Further checks: my system doesn't have a d3dx9_30.dll under windows32
It has a d3dx9_27.dll, instead
So, I guess this is the dead end for my trial?
QUOTE(Aldert @ Aug 7 2008, 11:31 AM)
Further checks: my system doesn't have a d3dx9_30.dll under windows32
It has a d3dx9_27.dll, instead
So, I guess this is the dead end for my trial?
It has a d3dx9_27.dll, instead
So, I guess this is the dead end for my trial?
No you'll just have to update your dx version. I think the readme has the name of the dx version you want. I'd say just get the latest. I'd send you mine but who knows whats chnged between systems with each dx update. Prolly not even legal, actually
QUOTE(Von Djangos @ Aug 6 2008, 11:38 AM)
Interesting. Hopefully it can improve the lighting system, and even possibly make the combat exciting *crosses fingers*
I hope not. That should be left up to modders and would add to the difficulty and time for this project.
I want it to be vanilla. No extras. Personal touches like improving lighting and combat should be left for after its finished and released.
Native Linux Support? That would be friggin sweet. One less thing I would need Windows for. Too bad my gaming computer decided to kick the bucket. I'm stuck with a 250w power supply and Intel Integrated graphics on my "newer" computer. I can't test it until I find a low power pci-e card.
I posted a link over at the Ubuntu boards. I wish you the best of luck on this tbrick.
That would be friggin sweet. One less thing I would need Windows for. Too bad my gaming computer decided to kick the bucket. I'm stuck with a 250w power supply and Intel Integrated graphics on my "newer" computer. I can't test it until I find a low power pci-e card.I posted a link over at the Ubuntu boards. I wish you the best of luck on this tbrick.
The way this is spreading I'll probably get slashdoted soon, lol.
Aldert: a "backup" solution is to use OpenGL instead of DirectX - I haven't actually tried this on Windows though. To do so, edit the file plugins.cfg.win32 and comment out the line that says Direct3D9_d (put a # in front of the line). Then select OpenGL when you start it. Let me know if it works!
Aldert: a "backup" solution is to use OpenGL instead of DirectX - I haven't actually tried this on Windows though. To do so, edit the file plugins.cfg.win32 and comment out the line that says Direct3D9_d (put a # in front of the line). Then select OpenGL when you start it. Let me know if it works!
QUOTE(Pwin @ Aug 7 2008, 07:56 PM)
I hope not. That should be left up to modders and would add to the difficulty and time for this project. I want it to be vanilla. No extras. Personal touches like improving lighting and combat should be left for after its finished and released.
I want it to be vanilla. No extras. Personal touches like improving lighting and combat should be left for after its finished and released.I agree completely.
QUOTE(Pwin @ Aug 7 2008, 07:56 PM)
I hope not. That should be left up to modders and would add to the difficulty and time for this project. I want it to be vanilla. No extras. Personal touches like improving lighting and combat should be left for after its finished and released.
I want it to be vanilla. No extras. Personal touches like improving lighting and combat should be left for after its finished and released.IMHO if you want vanilla, you can play with the default game engine, this you should have as many options as you want
So if someone decides to write in a new combat system, what is wrong with that? I am sure someone will write in another option in time. (Personally, I think it needs a bit of work on it, keeping the mechanics the same though)
brick, do you have a D compiler or IDE you can suggest? I am using Linux atm
so... im a little confused. exactly what does the current download for Windows do? i have windows XP, and if this will help my MW game in ANY way i will spend a few hours and DL it!
... I never actually though that someone would do this, but somebody did! It will most definitely be worth waiting for when it comes time of completion.
QUOTE(TESgamerKyle @ Aug 7 2008, 03:56 PM)
so... im a little confused. exactly what does the current download for Windows do? i have windows XP, and if this will help my MW game in ANY way i will spend a few hours and DL it!
Right now all you can do is explore cells with unanimated creatures and NPCs in a no clipping type mode, IIRC.
If there is ANY way to add multiplayer support......THAT would rock my world.
I'm not talking online either. I'm talking networking two or more computers for a LAN party.
Jeez...if Bethesda had done this originally....
I'm not talking online either. I'm talking networking two or more computers for a LAN party.
Jeez...if Bethesda had done this originally....
How come not many people have heard about this? I mean I just heard about it right now and this is like the biggest Morrowind project ever!
Good luck tbrick!!
Good luck tbrick!!
The ability to create physiqued hair and clothing? heh, that might be a big ask.
What I'd really like is to 'increase' the number of animations things can have, player, NPC, creature, etc ... as currently we can only really replace current animations as I understand?
What I'd really like is to 'increase' the number of animations things can have, player, NPC, creature, etc ... as currently we can only really replace current animations as I understand?
the ability to view an exterior cell while in an interior... so you can be in a house in pelagiad, look out the window, and see pelagiad...
maybe? possible?
cheesecake?
maybe? possible?
cheesecake?
QUOTE(Craigor @ Aug 7 2008, 06:55 PM)
the ability to view an exterior cell while in an interior... so you can be in a house in pelagiad, look out the window, and see pelagiad...
maybe? possible?
cheesecake?
maybe? possible?
cheesecake?
that would rock!
Oh and a few other things that come to mind ... if possible ... being able to correct the seams in custom terrain tiles. Increasing the number of equiqable slots, both in inventory and on character models. Hmmm possibly make NPCs that can be Creatures (wear armour, etc, while still having a 'Soul').
Hope that helps.
Hope that helps.
QUOTE(Craigor @ Aug 7 2008, 05:55 PM)
the ability to view an exterior cell while in an interior... so you can be in a house in pelagiad, look out the window, and see pelagiad...
maybe? possible?
cheesecake?
maybe? possible?
cheesecake?
Dosen't Balmora Council Club do something very similar to this? I saw a bird outside through a windows there
This is a great project. Maybe you could add the ability to modify GMST in real time, and some way to mod the interface itself (like adding more tabs in the inventory).
For see through the window, The Black Mill.
This project is cool! I have some suggestion support in transparency in particle system or billboard. I believe there's a problem in original Morrowind exe because when I was making a fire particle, I tried to include changing transparency in animation, so it would seem that the fire is diminishing over time. I exported it sucessfully and when I viewed it with Nifskope, I was glad, the fire diminishes but when I tried to run in Morrowind, it doesn't. Without this limitation, I can make more nice looking particle effects.
QUOTE(rascalmanny @ Aug 7 2008, 04:55 PM)
If there is ANY way to add multiplayer support......THAT would rock my world.
I'm not talking online either. I'm talking networking two or more computers for a LAN party.
Jeez...if Bethesda had done this originally....
I'm not talking online either. I'm talking networking two or more computers for a LAN party.
Jeez...if Bethesda had done this originally....
I doubt this is something that will ever happen
QUOTE(Demon xen @ Aug 8 2008, 05:43 AM)
I doubt this is something that will ever happen
Its already been done in vanilla Morrowind to an extent ... I expect having an opensource version could only make it easier for people to accomplish.
Some of the things being asked here would make things incomptable with many mods, for example seeing exteriors from interiors is a big change to the interior/exterior cell system.
Likewise with combat, there's nothing wrong with it. The only "issue" is that there are no dodging animations which would make the combat seem more "sensible".
As long as the project is stable, better FPS, better loading, customisable view distance and distant objects, perhaps the same grass system as Oblivion and then no squares from the lighting then it would be perfect.
Should just be fixes to the engine, and incorporate the features of the 3rd party programs that many people use as long as all the settings are optional.
Virtually anything else on top of that is the same as mods which will turn people away.
Likewise with combat, there's nothing wrong with it. The only "issue" is that there are no dodging animations which would make the combat seem more "sensible".
As long as the project is stable, better FPS, better loading, customisable view distance and distant objects, perhaps the same grass system as Oblivion and then no squares from the lighting then it would be perfect.
Should just be fixes to the engine, and incorporate the features of the 3rd party programs that many people use as long as all the settings are optional.
Virtually anything else on top of that is the same as mods which will turn people away.
QUOTE(MortX @ Aug 8 2008, 05:54 AM)
Its already been done in vanilla Morrowind to an extent ... I expect having an opensource version could only make it easier for people to accomplish.
to an extent...
Lots of great suggestions so far!
Some of these probably belong in mods rather than in the engine itself though. But I can say that the engine will be considerably more moddable than the original game, and most of ideas here should be possible at some point.
As for multiplayer: who knows It's not technically impossible in any way.
rocker: Noted, I'll remember this when we start doing particle effects. Think you could send me an example Nif with a description of what it should look like? Email is korslund@gmail.com
MortX: I'm not familiar with the terrain seems problem, could you explain that one?
Jacoby: I a lot of people swear to the Eclipse IDE and a D plugin called Descent: http://www.dsource.org/projects/descent . Personally I'm using Emacs in C-mode, which works good enough in most cases.
Some of these probably belong in mods rather than in the engine itself though. But I can say that the engine will be considerably more moddable than the original game, and most of ideas here should be possible at some point.
As for multiplayer: who knows
It's not technically impossible in any way.rocker: Noted, I'll remember this when we start doing particle effects. Think you could send me an example Nif with a description of what it should look like? Email is korslund@gmail.com
MortX: I'm not familiar with the terrain seems problem, could you explain that one?
Jacoby: I a lot of people swear to the Eclipse IDE and a D plugin called Descent: http://www.dsource.org/projects/descent . Personally I'm using Emacs in C-mode, which works good enough in most cases.
QUOTE(PirateLord @ Aug 8 2008, 06:55 AM)
Some of the things being asked here would make things incomptable with many mods, for example seeing exteriors from interiors is a big change to the interior/exterior cell system.
Likewise with combat, there's nothing wrong with it. The only "issue" is that there are no dodging animations which would make the combat seem more "sensible".
As long as the project is stable, better FPS, better loading, customisable view distance and distant objects, perhaps the same grass system as Oblivion and then no squares from the lighting then it would be perfect.
Should just be fixes to the engine, and incorporate the features of the 3rd party programs that many people use as long as all the settings are optional.
Virtually anything else on top of that is the same as mods which will turn people away.
Likewise with combat, there's nothing wrong with it. The only "issue" is that there are no dodging animations which would make the combat seem more "sensible".
As long as the project is stable, better FPS, better loading, customisable view distance and distant objects, perhaps the same grass system as Oblivion and then no squares from the lighting then it would be perfect.
Should just be fixes to the engine, and incorporate the features of the 3rd party programs that many people use as long as all the settings are optional.
Virtually anything else on top of that is the same as mods which will turn people away.
I think people aren't so much asking for these new features as asking for the ability to make these new features. I don't expect new soul gems to be added in-game, I'd just like the ability to mod them in myself.
The main thing I would like from this is improved performance; better FPS and less crashing. On the graphical side of things, pushing the view distance out as far as possible (make it so players can choose how far they want to see) Perhaps integrate some sort of bloom effect. Other than that, I would not touch anything else so it would be compatible with all mods.
PS: Oh yeah, and make rings/amulets/belts visible on the player. Not essential but it really would make things more intresting. But I wonder, would the non-existant meshes show up as exclamation marks in-game?
Also, I dont know if its possible but improving the NPC AI so they dont run into walls so much, maybe make them smart enough that path grids are no longer needed. Also I've noticed that enemies with ranged weapons behave strangely in certain circumstances, like when the player is on a platform higher than them, they wont shoot, and they dont attack at all unless they are fairly close. I think they should shoot at you from a greater distance.
PS: Oh yeah, and make rings/amulets/belts visible on the player. Not essential but it really would make things more intresting. But I wonder, would the non-existant meshes show up as exclamation marks in-game?
Also, I dont know if its possible but improving the NPC AI so they dont run into walls so much, maybe make them smart enough that path grids are no longer needed. Also I've noticed that enemies with ranged weapons behave strangely in certain circumstances, like when the player is on a platform higher than them, they wont shoot, and they dont attack at all unless they are fairly close. I think they should shoot at you from a greater distance.
I would agree, that a new engine shouldn't nesesarily add the new features but instead allow them to be added. Since this is the biggest morrowind project I've seen, just finishing it to morrowind standards is a huge task, so the focus should be to make an engine, which is capable of running the current mods. When that is done, then you can look for improvements, at least the improvements which are pure additions. I would think, that the engine have a bigger chance of being finished that way.
But besides the suggested changes, I have a major issue, which I would like to be solved some time: the collision issue, where you fall through floors, with annoying, unexpected or even fatal consequences.
But besides the suggested changes, I have a major issue, which I would like to be solved some time: the collision issue, where you fall through floors, with annoying, unexpected or even fatal consequences.
Wow...that looks awesome...to say the least
IMO, The capability for dual wielding would be nice, that way people who wouldn't to do mods would not have to kludge it. Also, parrying would be good for two hand weapon users. Just the ability to mod them, the devs of openmw would not have to actually put it in. This is a very exciting project!
-Matt
-Matt
Interesting. If this ever gets anywhere (as in, done), it could open up some interesting effects.
Imagine, Morrowind with physics and native shader support. Truly advanced AI. New scripting language. Epic.
Imagine, Morrowind with physics and native shader support. Truly advanced AI. New scripting language. Epic.
QUOTE(Lord Udedenkz @ Aug 6 2008, 10:49 AM)
Just a question, will Betheda actually ALLOW this to happen? I think this somehaw broke rights.
As far as my knowledge of copyright goes, it doesn't break any laws. It's simply another reader for certain files. Seeing as the ESP/ESM format isn't patented, anyone can legally write code to read it. The OGRE is an open render, so if you choose to render the loaded data with it...
And if you already own a copy of the game, and so the resources, you're not stealing it from anyone. Same as using EE or MWEdit.
And if you already own a copy of the game, and so the resources, you're not stealing it from anyone. Same as using EE or MWEdit.
QUOTE(POstem @ Aug 8 2008, 08:29 PM)
Just a question, will Betheda actually ALLOW this to happen? I think this somehaw broke rights.
Provided that the application requires a legally-purchased copy of Morrowind to run, it should be fine, as it would therefore be in the same category as MWSE and MGE.
QUOTE(princess_stomper @ Aug 8 2008, 04:32 PM)
Provided that the application requires a legally-purchased copy of Morrowind to run, it should be fine, as it would therefore be in the same category as MWSE and MGE.
Fine then i hope this to happen. Just asking because of Morroblivion, you know, it was know that you would need the both games, but we all know how this ended.
QUOTE(peachykeen @ Aug 8 2008, 02:16 PM)
...Truly advanced AI...
Maybe a FargothV2.0 that stalks you like Gollum for the WHOLE main quest
QUOTE(princess_stomper @ Aug 8 2008, 08:32 PM)
Provided that the application requires a legally-purchased copy of Morrowind to run, it should be fine, as it would therefore be in the same category as MWSE and MGE.
It beaks the EULA. gstaff said that bethesda won't ever endorse it, and IF it is reported to their legal team, "hypothetically, we [bethesda] could ask you [the person who is making the engine] to remove it"
In other words, like everything else that breaks the eula, they will ignore it unless someone does some complaining
QUOTE(iio @ Aug 8 2008, 09:01 PM)
Maybe a FargothV2.0 that stalks you like Gollum for the WHOLE main quest
QUOTE(Yacoby @ Aug 8 2008, 05:07 PM)
It beaks the EULA. gstaff said that bethesda won't ever endorse it, and IF it is reported to their legal team, "hypothetically, we [bethesda] could ask you [the person who is making the engine] to remove it"
In other words, like everything else that breaks the eula, they will ignore it unless someone does some complaining
In other words, like everything else that breaks the eula, they will ignore it unless someone does some complaining
This mean someone reported Morroblivion? I mean... tell me who was the bastard...
OGRE graphics!??
COOL!!!
Edit:
Someone that might have got alot of money?...
Why does it not agree with the eula?
COOL!!!
Edit:
QUOTE
This mean someone reported Morroblivion? I mean... tell me who was the bastard...
Someone that might have got alot of money?...
Why does it not agree with the eula?
QUOTE(iio @ Aug 8 2008, 10:01 PM)
Maybe a FargothV2.0 that stalks you like Gollum for the WHOLE main quest
Where is myyyy precioussssss riiing xD
QUOTE
Maybe a FargothV2.0 that stalks you like Gollum for the WHOLE main quest
Without being seen. Just bumps and coughs in your right rear speaker. And when you turn around, you see him running for cover.
Edit: Actually, I'm tempted to mod that now. Hmm.
QUOTE
It beaks the EULA. gstaff said that bethesda won't ever endorse it, and IF it is reported to their legal team, "hypothetically, we [bethesda] could ask you [the person who is making the engine] to remove it"
In other words, like everything else that breaks the eula, they will ignore it unless someone does some complaining
In other words, like everything else that breaks the eula, they will ignore it unless someone does some complaining
How does it break the EULA?
If making NifSkope and MWEdit is legal, this combines them and some. Which bit makes it illegal?
Hopefully no one will do anything until after stable release, though.
Yes that's a bit ridiculous if something as carefully done as this, using all the original resources, breaks the EULA. And I'm sure one could easily circumvent it. All EULA's can be circumvented, just read the fine print, do exactly what they don't expect you to
Hi!
Princess Stomper actually brought this one to my attention earlier this week, and after looking it over, it seems like it's alright so long as you're required to have the Morrowind disk.
This sounds like it's probably okay to me. If I said elsewhere previously, could someone send me that correspondence?
Thank you
Princess Stomper actually brought this one to my attention earlier this week, and after looking it over, it seems like it's alright so long as you're required to have the Morrowind disk.
This sounds like it's probably okay to me. If I said elsewhere previously, could someone send me that correspondence?
Thank you
Anybody successfully build from the source yet? I just tried and got alot of undefined references. For example, the Ogre::Quaternion::Identity as an undefined reference. I changed the path variables, I downloaded all the sources/SDK's but for some reason it can't find some header files or something.
QUOTE(POstem @ Aug 8 2008, 08:36 PM)
Fine then i hope this to happen. Just asking because of Morroblivion, you know, it was know that you would need the both games, but we all know how this ended.
It is fine to put Morrowind content into Morrowind and Oblivion content into Oblivion, but just not OK to put content from one game into another. That's been made clear, and we cannot allow Morroblivion on this forum (so please drop the issue or I'll very reluctantly have to lock this thread).
This thread is about Open Morrowind, and I've not been asked to close any threads on this subject.
BTW, there's a big difference between "endorse" and "allow". Bethesda do not endorse any user-made mods, because if they did so they'd have to assume responsibility for all the beta-testing, bug-fixing, and basically millions of dollar's-worth of clean-up. Not to mention, of course, the legal worries of ensuring that all content is appropriate for a US teen audience.
So, to the best of my knowledge, this mod is allowed but it's not endorsed.
:edit: Ah - thanks, gstaff:
QUOTE(Gstaff @ Aug 8 2008, 10:56 PM)
Hi!
Princess Stomper actually brought this one to my attention earlier this week, and after looking it over, it seems like it's alright so long as you're required to have the Morrowind disk.
This sounds like it's probably okay to me. If I said elsewhere previously, could someone send me that correspondence?
Thank you
Princess Stomper actually brought this one to my attention earlier this week, and after looking it over, it seems like it's alright so long as you're required to have the Morrowind disk.
This sounds like it's probably okay to me. If I said elsewhere previously, could someone send me that correspondence?
Thank you
QUOTE(iio @ Aug 8 2008, 05:56 PM)
Anybody successfully build from the source yet? I just tried and got alot of undefined references. For example, the Ogre::Quaternion::Identity as an undefined reference. I changed the path variables, I downloaded all the sources/SDK's but for some reason it can't find some header files or something.
Make sure you have both the source distro for your platform, all dependencies (I've had issues with some little library that wasn't included, and wasn't on my system, breaking compile), and in this case, all wrappers or whatever was used to cross the C/C++ and D code.
QUOTE(Pjstaab @ Aug 7 2008, 04:35 PM)
Right now all you can do is explore cells with unanimated creatures and NPCs in a no clipping type mode, IIRC.
thank you for answering my quistion
im ignorant when it comes to scripting or programing whatever this is! so eventualy (when its done) it will make the game more like OB? like when you kill sombody their body will just fall, and you can move it around the room, and stuff it in a corner type thing? also, just an idea, would it be possible to make a weapon that increases spell casting speed? cause if so we can finally complete every mage's dream.. dual-spell casting. 2 fire balls in 1 second!
QUOTE(TESgamerKyle @ Aug 8 2008, 06:04 PM)
thank you for answering my quistion im ignorant when it comes to scripting or programing whatever this is! so eventualy (when its done) it will make the game more like OB? like when you kill sombody their body will just fall, and you can move it around the room, and stuff it in a corner type thing? also, just an idea, would it be possible to make a weapon that increases spell casting speed? cause if so we can finally complete every mage's dream.. dual-spell casting. 2 fire balls in 1 second!
im ignorant when it comes to scripting or programing whatever this is! so eventualy (when its done) it will make the game more like OB? like when you kill sombody their body will just fall, and you can move it around the room, and stuff it in a corner type thing? also, just an idea, would it be possible to make a weapon that increases spell casting speed? cause if so we can finally complete every mage's dream.. dual-spell casting. 2 fire balls in 1 second!I'd say it would be possible to create the first affect, but abit much to ask the OpenMorrowind author to implement right off the bat ... I'm not sure how 'ragdolls' will work with the current line of Morrowind clothes and armours and the like however.
Not sure what you mean by your second request.
Hey again. Yacoby reminded me of the correspondance I sent earlier this year regarding projects that change the game engine, which is something we don't allow (I had previously checked on this with our legal staff).
Sorry for the confusion.
Sorry for the confusion.
Why would you even have to have a morrowind disk to run it? Wouldn't you just need the disk to use anything from morrowind? Couldn't you use this to run AoA even if you didn't own a copy of morrowind?
QUOTE(Gstaff @ Aug 8 2008, 06:33 PM)
Hey again. Yacoby reminded me of the correspondance I sent earlier this year regarding projects that change the game engine, which is something we don't allow (I had previously checked on this with our legal staff).
Sorry for the confusion.
Sorry for the confusion.
uhm. does that mean this will never be released?
edit respond:
QUOTE(MortX @ Aug 8 2008, 06:27 PM)
I'd say it would be possible to create the first affect, but abit much to ask the OpenMorrowind author to implement right off the bat ... I'm not sure how 'ragdolls' will work with the current line of Morrowind clothes and armours and the like however.
Not sure what you mean by your second request.
Not sure what you mean by your second request.
I mean, you could make a weapon that increases your spell casting time, so it would simulate using both of your hands to shoot TWO fireballs or w/e at once
QUOTE(Gstaff @ Aug 8 2008, 06:33 PM)
Hey again. Yacoby reminded me of the correspondance I sent earlier this year regarding projects that change the game engine, which is something we don't allow (I had previously checked on this with our legal staff).
Sorry for the confusion.
Sorry for the confusion.
Wouldn't this change the game engine, therefore, you are saying it is illegal?
Isen't it similar to PDF, you can open it with adobe, or kpdf, or sumatra pdf.
That would seem to be the case ... thats unfortunate, but what can you do? Hopefully the growing interest in the area may persuade Beth decide to release the source at sometime legally or something .... otherwise, eh.
QUOTE(Falc @ Aug 8 2008, 07:41 PM)
Wouldn't this change the game engine, therefore, you are saying it is illegal?
Isen't it similar to PDF, you can open it with adobe, or kpdf, or sumatra pdf.
Isen't it similar to PDF, you can open it with adobe, or kpdf, or sumatra pdf.
Not according to Yacoby. To be on the safe side, I'll need to check with folks at the office. As it's almost 8pm here on Friday, I probably won't find anything out until early next week.
I'll see what I can find out.
QUOTE(MortX @ Aug 8 2008, 06:41 PM)
That would seem to be the case ... thats unfortunate, but what can you do? Hopefully the growing interest in the area may persuade Beth decide to release the source at sometime legally or something .... otherwise, eh.
... This sux, if Beth wont allow it. i was SO excited about this, even tho i have pretty much no clue what it does. all i knew was it would make the AI better, and it will be possible to do more things in MW. i would DL it even if it was just AI better. but now i dont think i will Ever be able to DL it D:
edit: Yay! a little piece of hope!... and now... we wait!
QUOTE(Gstaff @ Aug 8 2008, 06:45 PM)
Not according to Yacoby. To be on the safe side, I'll need to check with folks at the office. As it's almost 8pm here on Friday, I probably won't find anything out until early next week.
I'll see what I can find out.
I'll see what I can find out.
Ok, *crosses fingers*
I hope the guys at beth don't mind. Thinking about it, i doubt it will impact beth financially either way, which is the bottom line in all of this
QUOTE(TESgamerKyle @ Aug 8 2008, 06:47 PM)
edit: Yay! a little piece of hope!... and now... we wait!
Yes I'd take Gstaff's word over mine
As for your earlier question I would think your idea would be possible, though alittle odd ... as I imagine you could rather create a program or something that let you do two handed spell casting normally, without the need of a weapon, which sounds abit simpler to me.
QUOTE(Gstaff @ Aug 8 2008, 06:45 PM)
Not according to Yacoby. To be on the safe side, I'll need to check with folks at the office.
Oh god please be okay
QUOTE(Gstaff @ Aug 8 2008, 06:45 PM)
As it's almost 8pm here on Friday, I probably won't find anything out until early next week.
Oh christ now I have to play the waiting game.
I hate the [censored] waiting game.
QUOTE
BTW, I agree with several people here that the first priority should be to recreate the original game (except the bugs of course).
QUOTE
But I can say that the engine will be considerably more moddable than the original game, and most of ideas here should be possible at some point.
This is a very interesting, ambitious, intriguing, and promising project, indeed!
I cannot imagine how one person can accomplish the job usually performed by a team of paid professionals.
As far as I understand the situation: Tbrick is creating a new game engine using Morrowind recourses (models, animations, textures, story line, etc.).
I have many questions but will start with the few.
I am not a game programmer at all (modder-hobbyist) and probably my questions/remarks will sound very naïve.
1. Usually many new game features (e.g. physics) are incorporated in the used file formats, mainly nif in MW case. Is OpenMW going to use only standard MW formats or there will be format modifications?
2. Commercial game engine packages contain specific format plugins (exporters/importer(the later really)) for standard 3D modeling software (3DS Max, Maya, XSI). Are such OpenMW-specific tools planned in the project frame?
3. Modders are specially interested in construction kits (e.g. MW TES Construction Set/Kit ), game scripting language (will it be “Monster”?). Are any similar kits for modders foreseen in the project?
4. A heart of a video game is an animation system IMHO. MW animation system has many well known limitations. I would like to attract attention to this problem, MW animation system improvement is the first item on my wish-list.
5. Legal issues. There might be another key player: the owners of the NetImmerse/ Gamebryo game engine - Emergent Game Technologies, Inc.
I wish I could be more helpful for this interesting work!
Good luck!
Before I start, let me preface this with the statement that I'm not expert on copyright law, or any kind of law, but I've read enough legal documents to delude myself into thinking I can understand bits of it here and there.
As far as I know, due to the deal with Emergent Game Technology, Bethesda will never release the source for Morrowind. Seeing as the NetImmerse engine was not designed by them, I'm not even sure whether or not they own the source (all depends on the intercorporate licensing terms, I suppose). So don't get your hopes up for that, at least intil NetImmerse is released by Emergent as open-source (and, given the continuing success of GameBryo, chances are that'll never happen).
I don't think, without taking out patents on the ESP file format, Bethesda can stop this effort. So long as the new OpenMorrowind engine functions only as a read and render engine for the existing data, and in some way verifies that the user has a legal copy of that data (even if it's only by not distributing it with the engine), it should be as legal as MWEdit, MGE, Enchanted Editor, MWSE, MWE, Littoral, MGen, or any of the other projects which read that same data. Seeing as Bethesda can't do anything about keeping people from using the NIF or DDS formats (seeing as they were not even created by BethSoft), even if the ESM/ESP data was somehow declared off-limits, this engine could still be make capable of loading the other data files. The only potential problem is the BIK videos, as Bink is a proprietary codec, owned by Rad Game Tools (or someone like that).
As for enchanced features, that's not extremely likely, especially in certain areas. Given the ES* format, it would be impossible to encode physics data (eg mass) in objects, meaning seperate physics definition files would be necessary. Ragdolls could be possible, but again, how to define animations in the NIF format on-the-fly, while still supporting KF-based animation files? And what would define the joint limits? How would the bones be converted from the NIF standard skeleton? Advanced AI could be possible, but then comes the problem of merging in the existing AI packages. The easiest thing would be added lighting quality, shader support, and better alpha-channeling.
Anyways, just ill-informed speculation.
And now all this talk of new engines makes me want to write one. Must avoid that urge.
QUOTE
That would seem to be the case ... thats unfortunate, but what can you do? Hopefully the growing interest in the area may persuade Beth decide to release the source at sometime legally or something .... otherwise, eh.
As far as I know, due to the deal with Emergent Game Technology, Bethesda will never release the source for Morrowind. Seeing as the NetImmerse engine was not designed by them, I'm not even sure whether or not they own the source (all depends on the intercorporate licensing terms, I suppose). So don't get your hopes up for that, at least intil NetImmerse is released by Emergent as open-source (and, given the continuing success of GameBryo, chances are that'll never happen).
QUOTE(TESgamerKyle @ Aug 8 2008, 07:47 PM)
... This sux, if Beth wont allow it. i was SO excited about this, even tho i have pretty much no clue what it does. all i knew was it would make the AI better, and it will be possible to do more things in MW. i would DL it even if it was just AI better. but now i dont think i will Ever be able to DL it D:
I don't think, without taking out patents on the ESP file format, Bethesda can stop this effort. So long as the new OpenMorrowind engine functions only as a read and render engine for the existing data, and in some way verifies that the user has a legal copy of that data (even if it's only by not distributing it with the engine), it should be as legal as MWEdit, MGE, Enchanted Editor, MWSE, MWE, Littoral, MGen, or any of the other projects which read that same data. Seeing as Bethesda can't do anything about keeping people from using the NIF or DDS formats (seeing as they were not even created by BethSoft), even if the ESM/ESP data was somehow declared off-limits, this engine could still be make capable of loading the other data files. The only potential problem is the BIK videos, as Bink is a proprietary codec, owned by Rad Game Tools (or someone like that).
As for enchanced features, that's not extremely likely, especially in certain areas. Given the ES* format, it would be impossible to encode physics data (eg mass) in objects, meaning seperate physics definition files would be necessary. Ragdolls could be possible, but again, how to define animations in the NIF format on-the-fly, while still supporting KF-based animation files? And what would define the joint limits? How would the bones be converted from the NIF standard skeleton? Advanced AI could be possible, but then comes the problem of merging in the existing AI packages. The easiest thing would be added lighting quality, shader support, and better alpha-channeling.
Anyways, just ill-informed speculation.
And now all this talk of new engines makes me want to write one. Must avoid that urge.
Can't they release partial source code for the components that they own the right to in the game engine?
Ofcoucrce that does give the ability for the better of us to attempt to reverse engineer the other parts... I am not sure whether that illegal though - seems to be common in the CPU market.
I know alot of games that have released their source codes and fans made mad improvements to the game. (Quake, doom, Quake II, DN3D, etc) But - I am not sure whether I have seen people make a new engine to a game that has not released its engine to the masses.... anyone know of any examples like openmorrowind?
Ofcoucrce that does give the ability for the better of us to attempt to reverse engineer the other parts... I am not sure whether that illegal though - seems to be common in the CPU market.
I know alot of games that have released their source codes and fans made mad improvements to the game. (Quake, doom, Quake II, DN3D, etc) But - I am not sure whether I have seen people make a new engine to a game that has not released its engine to the masses.... anyone know of any examples like openmorrowind?
QUOTE(Lord Udedenkz @ Aug 8 2008, 09:17 PM)
Can't they release partial source code for the components that they own the right to in the game engine?
They might be able to, but given that it would most likely be irreversibly tied into the NetImmerse engine code, it would be at best difficult and at worst impossible to use.
QUOTE
Ofcoucrce that does give the ability for the better of us to attempt to reverse engineer the other parts... I am not sure whether that illegal though - seems to be common in the CPU market.
It may or may not. For the most part, the CPU makers write their own code, instead of licensing (imagine the mess if they started borrowind partially-compatible BIOS).
QUOTE
I know alot of games that have released their source codes and fans made mad improvements to the game. (Quake, doom, Quake II, DN3D, etc) But - I am not sure whether I have seen people make a new engine to a game that has not released its engine to the masses.... anyone know of any examples like openmorrowind?
I'm not sure about unreleased total rewrites, although I know there is/was a total rewrite of Doom going on at one point (as far as I know, not using any original code). Thing is, Id tends/tended to write their own engines, especially at the Quake 1-3 era, so they had every right imaginable to release those. Bethesda effectively bought their engine, so what they can and can't do is much more limited.
QUOTE(peachykeen @ Aug 8 2008, 05:30 PM)
Make sure you have both the source distro for your platform, all dependencies (I've had issues with some little library that wasn't included, and wasn't on my system, breaking compile), and in this case, all wrappers or whatever was used to cross the C/C++ and D code.
Which library are you talking about? That might sort me out.
I'm not sure why Bethesda insists on cutting off it's own nose to spite it's face.
I mean, if I were a company, and users were spending their own free time making creations that increased my sales free of charge, I would be supporting their work, rather than suppressing it.
I mean, if I were a company, and users were spending their own free time making creations that increased my sales free of charge, I would be supporting their work, rather than suppressing it.
Tbrick is making a new "game engine" with a new direct access,but you will need the original game,just like MWE,MWSE,FPS Optimizer,Morrowind Photograph,etc.
Like Valve .Counter Strike was a free modification of Half Life.If this project is finished,maybe a lot of people buy morrowind to try the new engine,new graphics,new phisics,new animations and IA...Awesome.
QUOTE
I'm not sure why Bethesda insists on cutting off it's own nose to spite it's face.
I mean, if I were a company, and users were spending their own free time making creations that increased my sales free of charge, I would be supporting their work, rather than suppressing it.
I mean, if I were a company, and users were spending their own free time making creations that increased my sales free of charge, I would be supporting their work, rather than suppressing it.
Like Valve
.Counter Strike was a free modification of Half Life.If this project is finished,maybe a lot of people buy morrowind to try the new engine,new graphics,new phisics,new animations and IA...Awesome.
blank post move along lol
It's probably impossible to make a relevant cd-checking mechanism in an open source program, as anyone can remove it before compiling. On the other hand, Bethesda could decide to allow only the original version with cd-check in it, and just not allow forks. It wouldn't basically mean anything, but it might comply better with whatever rules there are.
About AI: A LOD based AI engine was discussed in the ogre3d forum thread, and the compatibility with existing mods is seen as something to worry about. If the AI system was based on packages that are given to each npc, wouldn't it be simple to just have couple of different default packages that replace these "standing still", "wondering around", "attacking the player" and "following the player" modes. So importing npc's to a real AI system wouldn't necessarily impose compatibility problems.
A feature wish: UI customizations, like an inventory filter for keys ("a keyring"), or readable stuff like books and notes.
About AI: A LOD based AI engine was discussed in the ogre3d forum thread, and the compatibility with existing mods is seen as something to worry about. If the AI system was based on packages that are given to each npc, wouldn't it be simple to just have couple of different default packages that replace these "standing still", "wondering around", "attacking the player" and "following the player" modes. So importing npc's to a real AI system wouldn't necessarily impose compatibility problems.
A feature wish: UI customizations, like an inventory filter for keys ("a keyring"), or readable stuff like books and notes.
Whoa, so much to respond to. Might split this into several posts
First off: Gstaff, thanks for your effort, this is something I'd like to clear up as soon as possible. I look forward to hear what you say next week.
Second: The project is named OpenMW, not Open Morrowind. I will have to be strict about this, as I definitely DO NOT want to infringe on the Morrowind trademark in any way.
Next: OpenMW is NOT a modification of the original engine, and it is not based on any reverse engineering of the original engine (only of the file formats themselves, and very little of that was done by me.) It is built entirely from scratch. With a few modifications it could be used as a stand-alone game engine.
I do not and will never allow game assets from other games to be used in OpenMW. This includes loading other NIF versions (such as the Oblivion version) or other model format. This is also something I'm very strict about.
I sincerely do not think that OpenMW can or will harm Bethsoft or their publisher in any way, and I have no intention to do so. I really think and hope it will prolong the lifetime of one of their products, plus allow it to run on Linux and Mac.
For the record, there are a lot of game reimplementations around. Some are listed here:
http://rewiki.regengedanken.de/wiki/Links_...implementations
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Game_engine_recreation
First off: Gstaff, thanks for your effort, this is something I'd like to clear up as soon as possible. I look forward to hear what you say next week.
Second: The project is named OpenMW, not Open Morrowind. I will have to be strict about this, as I definitely DO NOT want to infringe on the Morrowind trademark in any way.
Next: OpenMW is NOT a modification of the original engine, and it is not based on any reverse engineering of the original engine (only of the file formats themselves, and very little of that was done by me.) It is built entirely from scratch. With a few modifications it could be used as a stand-alone game engine.
I do not and will never allow game assets from other games to be used in OpenMW. This includes loading other NIF versions (such as the Oblivion version) or other model format. This is also something I'm very strict about.
I sincerely do not think that OpenMW can or will harm Bethsoft or their publisher in any way, and I have no intention to do so. I really think and hope it will prolong the lifetime of one of their products, plus allow it to run on Linux and Mac.
For the record, there are a lot of game reimplementations around. Some are listed here:
http://rewiki.regengedanken.de/wiki/Links_...implementations
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Game_engine_recreation
I have played MW to death and no longer play, just mod.
If this came out the situation would completely change. I'd play the game all over again. Imagine how many it would encourage to buy the game.
Please Beth, this is your community - keep it happy
If this came out the situation would completely change. I'd play the game all over again. Imagine how many it would encourage to buy the game.
Please Beth, this is your community - keep it happy
QUOTE(Gstaff @ Aug 9 2008, 12:33 AM)
Hey again. Yacoby reminded me of the correspondance I sent earlier this year regarding projects that change the game engine, which is something we don't allow (I had previously checked on this with our legal staff).
I think you may have asked your legal team the wrong sort of question. If you ask 'can I do xxx?' they'll always say no, just to cover themselves. That's what legal teams are for.
To be more explicit, try and define 'change the game engine'. If you mean an exe separate from and not dependent on morrowind.exe that can load and process morrowind's original data files, then things like mwedit, tesfaith, nifskope, and in the case of the textures photoshop, mspaint, ect. will all need to be banned. If there's a specific amount of overlap between the functionality of the 3rd party exe and morrowind.exe that's required, then that would have to be defined. (Something that lets you just run through the game world with meshes placed correctly, for example. I know of at least two utilities that let you do that much.) If you mean something that involves the dissassembly or modification of morrowind.exe at some point then mwse, mwe, mge and exe optimizer will need to be banned, and since discussion of all 4 has been allowed on the forums for years that would involve quite a lot of backtracking, especially since all 4 have been queried for breaching morrowind eula so there's no room for Beth to claim it had no knowledge of their existence.
OK, so that's a pile of completely stupid examples, but my point is that it's far easier to just say no to something than to spend the time thinking about it. It's nothing at all to do with running morrowind without a cd: If someone wanted to do that, they'd just download a nocd patch, not a write a whole new game engine.
QUOTE(tbrick @ Aug 9 2008, 04:14 AM)
I do not and will never allow game assets from other games to be used in OpenMW. This includes loading other NIF versions (such as the Oblivion version) or other model format. This is also something I'm very strict about.
Going on the Half Life/Counterstrike example, would this include games fan built specifically for OpenMW and as such aren't taking the assets away from someone else?
Oh and on your earlier question about what I ment by seams.
http://planetelderscrolls.gamespy.com/View...iew=Mods.Detail
It includes several screenshots of what I mean.
That mod attempts to fix them manually (The problem re arises when you start adding mods that effect the terrain to the core game, as I'm sure Slarti can't be expected to go in and manually correct everyones stuff) but the main problem seems to be Morrowind can only blend two different textures on a terrain tile ... if you have more than two adjacent to a tile you get a 'seam' as I understand it (I may be confused, anyone else know more about the problem?). I simply have come across it quite often as a wishful fix amongst Morrowinder's.
MortX: Sure that wouldn't be a problem. But Bethesda has said that they don't want material from other games mixed in with theirs, and I'm going to respect that. To be on the safe side I will stick with only loading assets from the original ESMs and from normal Morrowind mods for now.
About the seams problem: The terrain engine we'll be using is completely different from the Morrowind one of course, so it remains to be seen if this will still be a problem (and what other problems will come up.) Do you have any example mods that I could try?
About the seams problem: The terrain engine we'll be using is completely different from the Morrowind one of course, so it remains to be seen if this will still be a problem (and what other problems will come up.) Do you have any example mods that I could try?
QUOTE
Next: OpenMW is NOT a modification of the original engine, and it is not based on any reverse engineering of the original engine (only of the file formats themselves, and very little of that was done by me.) It is built entirely from scratch. With a few modifications it could be used as a stand-alone game engine.
Will the game mechanics be the same? Because if so, that'll take some experimentation, maybe reverse engineering (not looking at code RE, but testing ingame).
QUOTE
I do not and will never allow game assets from other games to be used in OpenMW. This includes loading other NIF versions (such as the Oblivion version) or other model format. This is also something I'm very strict about.
Would it not be more beneficial to allow multiple model formats? If people put in other game resources, you obviously can't be at fault, but it might make it easier for a lot of people if you added the ability to use 3DS models as well as NIF.
QUOTE(tbrick @ Aug 9 2008, 08:37 AM)
MortX: Sure that wouldn't be a problem. But Bethesda has said that they don't want material from other games mixed in with theirs, and I'm going to respect that. To be on the safe side I will stick with only loading assets from the original ESMs and from normal Morrowind mods for now.
'Normal' mods meaning what?
QUOTE
About the seams problem: The terrain engine we'll be using is completely different from the Morrowind one of course, so it remains to be seen if this will still be a problem (and what other problems will come up.)
I think the original bug was solely in Morrowind's custom terrain texture system, so if you're rewriting that it shouldn't pop up. Most of the ones I've seen since (Obv, Torque, etc) don't have that bug.
QUOTE(tbrick @ Aug 9 2008, 05:14 AM)
First off: Gstaff, thanks for your effort, this is something I'd like to clear up as soon as possible. I look forward to hear what you say next week.
Hey guys, I did some checking in on this and it's fine to move along with OpenMW!
Thanks everyone for your input
QUOTE(Gstaff @ Aug 9 2008, 04:31 PM)
Hey guys, I did some checking in on this and it's fine to move along with OpenMW!
Thanks everyone for your input
Thanks everyone for your input
Ah, that's excellent news!
Thanks, Gstaff!
* Swiveller *
QUOTE(Gstaff @ Aug 9 2008, 05:31 PM)
Hey guys, I did some checking in on this and it's fine to move along with OpenMW!
Thanks everyone for your input
Thanks everyone for your input
Definatly Good news
QUOTE(Gstaff @ Aug 9 2008, 11:31 AM)
Hey guys, I did some checking in on this and it's fine to move along with OpenMW!
Thanks everyone for your input
Thanks everyone for your input
I'm jazzed.
BOOOOOYA!
*does the boogaloo*
I was surfing this with my 360 controller (xpadder, if you don't use it, it's waaaay cooler than JoyToKey) And nearly dropped the damned thing when I read the "You got Go!".
Thank you Beth!
*does the boogaloo*
I was surfing this with my 360 controller (xpadder, if you don't use it, it's waaaay cooler than JoyToKey) And nearly dropped the damned thing when I read the "You got Go!".
Thank you Beth!
QUOTE(Gstaff @ Aug 9 2008, 05:31 PM)
Hey guys, I did some checking in on this and it's fine to move along with OpenMW!
Thanks everyone for your input
Thanks everyone for your input
If ever you're in Suffolk Gstaff, let me know.
I've a gallon of 14 year old cider with your name on it....
QUOTE(Gstaff @ Aug 9 2008, 11:31 AM)
Hey guys, I did some checking in on this and it's fine to move along with OpenMW!
Thanks everyone for your input
Thanks everyone for your input
Yay!... now we just have to wait for years! lol. so is there any estimated time when a beta will come out? (years? months? days? seconds?!?!?
i wish...)
QUOTE(Gstaff @ Aug 9 2008, 05:31 PM)
Hey guys, I did some checking in on this and it's fine to move along with OpenMW!
Thanks everyone for your input
Thanks everyone for your input
Excellent news! Thanks, gstaff!
Looking forward to seeing what you do with all this stuff.
QUOTE(Gstaff @ Aug 9 2008, 11:31 AM)
Hey guys, I did some checking in on this and it's fine to move along with OpenMW!
Thanks everyone for your input
Thanks everyone for your input
You guys should be so glad you can't see what's going on in my pants right now.
I wish I knew what I was doing so I could help.
I can hardly believe this is happening. Yacoby and Tbrick - you guys are Heroes.
On the subject of the features of the new engine - I hope new skills can be added to the game seamlessly. I've been doing a lot with the Morrowind Crafting mod lately and I often wish I could see my crafting skills displayed on my character sheet and actually increase my character's level by training them. This also reminds me of a small UI customization I'd like to see - I wish the skills on the character sheet were organized better. I think it would be good to list the character's major and minor skills as they currently are, but instead of tagging on the huge list of misc. skills, simply list the skill types (magic, combat, stealth, + any types added by mods, like crafting) and make it so the character can hover the mouse over those headings and see their levels in the appropriate skills. I think that would save a lot of space on the character sheet, especially if mod-made skills are ever fully implemented, without making it a hassle to find what you're looking for.
I feel a little silly making such a request while this project is still so early in development... ah well, this is what's been on my mind a lot lately so I better say it before I forget it. :^)
On the subject of the features of the new engine - I hope new skills can be added to the game seamlessly. I've been doing a lot with the Morrowind Crafting mod lately and I often wish I could see my crafting skills displayed on my character sheet and actually increase my character's level by training them. This also reminds me of a small UI customization I'd like to see - I wish the skills on the character sheet were organized better. I think it would be good to list the character's major and minor skills as they currently are, but instead of tagging on the huge list of misc. skills, simply list the skill types (magic, combat, stealth, + any types added by mods, like crafting) and make it so the character can hover the mouse over those headings and see their levels in the appropriate skills. I think that would save a lot of space on the character sheet, especially if mod-made skills are ever fully implemented, without making it a hassle to find what you're looking for.
I feel a little silly making such a request while this project is still so early in development... ah well, this is what's been on my mind a lot lately so I better say it before I forget it. :^)
QUOTE(Bycote @ Aug 9 2008, 11:02 PM)
I feel a little silly making such a request while this project is still so early in development... ah well, this is what's been on my mind a lot lately so I better say it before I forget it. :^)
I don't think its that silly, gives them an idea of what everyone at least would like to do with MW.
QUOTE(Bycote @ Aug 9 2008, 11:02 PM)
I can hardly believe this is happening. Yacoby and Tbrick - you guys are Heroes.
On the subject of the features of the new engine - I hope new skills can be added to the game seamlessly. I've been doing a lot with the Morrowind Crafting mod lately and I often wish I could see my crafting skills displayed on my character sheet and actually increase my character's level by training them. This also reminds me of a small UI customization I'd like to see - I wish the skills on the character sheet were organized better. I think it would be good to list the character's major and minor skills as they currently are, but instead of tagging on the huge list of misc. skills, simply list the skill types (magic, combat, stealth, + any types added by mods, like crafting) and make it so the character can hover the mouse over those headings and see their levels in the appropriate skills. I think that would save a lot of space on the character sheet, especially if mod-made skills are ever fully implemented, without making it a hassle to find what you're looking for.
I feel a little silly making such a request while this project is still so early in development... ah well, this is what's been on my mind a lot lately so I better say it before I forget it. :^)
On the subject of the features of the new engine - I hope new skills can be added to the game seamlessly. I've been doing a lot with the Morrowind Crafting mod lately and I often wish I could see my crafting skills displayed on my character sheet and actually increase my character's level by training them. This also reminds me of a small UI customization I'd like to see - I wish the skills on the character sheet were organized better. I think it would be good to list the character's major and minor skills as they currently are, but instead of tagging on the huge list of misc. skills, simply list the skill types (magic, combat, stealth, + any types added by mods, like crafting) and make it so the character can hover the mouse over those headings and see their levels in the appropriate skills. I think that would save a lot of space on the character sheet, especially if mod-made skills are ever fully implemented, without making it a hassle to find what you're looking for.
I feel a little silly making such a request while this project is still so early in development... ah well, this is what's been on my mind a lot lately so I better say it before I forget it. :^)
Why not just make the misc skills in alphabetical order? That way it'll be easy to view
This project is fabulous, thanks for trying your hand at it.
There are quite a few functions in the TES-shader for 3DS that don't work with the MV-engine, most notably bump-maps. Can we expect OpenMV to support the defunked options?
There are quite a few functions in the TES-shader for 3DS that don't work with the MV-engine, most notably bump-maps. Can we expect OpenMV to support the defunked options?
It'd be cool too if NPCs & the like would get out of the way when the PC or another NPC tries to move past.
... I wish I knew how to make a ~tcl hotkey...
... I wish I knew how to make a ~tcl hotkey...
I like the screenshots with the Doom3-esque lightning.
QUOTE(Kaoten @ Aug 10 2008, 03:20 PM)
It'd be cool too if NPCs & the like would get out of the way when the PC or another NPC tries to move past.
... I wish I knew how to make a ~tcl hotkey...
... I wish I knew how to make a ~tcl hotkey...
The plugin called The Request Mod by Casey Tucker already does this.
I never play without it.
Hey, just one question. Will the issue with bumpmapping and environment mapping not showing up on physiqued and enchanted items be fixed with the new engine? If so, awesome, if not, that's still fine.
QUOTE(Plangkye @ Aug 10 2008, 12:21 PM)
Hey, just one question. Will the issue with bumpmapping and environment mapping not showing up on physiqued and enchanted items be fixed with the new engine? If so, awesome, if not, that's still fine.
If what I know of OGRE is correct, because of the fact nothing is being reverse engineered, all the random bugs without obvious causes from MW will go. OGRE is capable of far more advanced rendering, so a lot of those things shouldn't be an issue.
Awesome awesome. I can't wait!
QUOTE(Demon xen @ Aug 10 2008, 08:17 AM)
Why not just make the misc skills in alphabetical order? That way it'll be easy to view
I'm pretty sure you're joking about this, but I'll answer anyway just to be safe. Please forgive me if I'm stating the obvious!
As explained, my suggestion was made in the interests of both organization and saving space. If mod-added skills are added to the skill list as you have suggested, the list could become very long (Morrowind Crafting alone adds 15 new skills to the game). You will need to scroll up and down a huge skill list to find the one skill you're looking for. And let's not forget the pain that would add to viewing things BELOW the skill list such as faction standings and bounty. The method I suggest saves a lot of space on the character sheet, organizes the skills much more logically than an alphabetical assortment (thus making them even easier to find), and (by saving space) makes other information found on the character sheet easier to access.
Heh, of course now I feel silly again, getting ready to submit this. This time because I'm almost sure I'm responding to a joke. Ah well, it's no harm either way I suppose.
edit for clarity - I keep using Morrowind Crafting as an example, but of course I know the skills added by it will not function like vanilla skills in a new engine so I don't expect its skills to magically be added to the character sheet or anything like that by the new engine. My suggestions are looking to the future - where mods can be made *like* Morrowind Crafting, but function seamlessly in the game.
Actually, when I first picked up Advanced Herbalism I kept wondering why it wasn't in the skills list. ^^" Till I tried for 15 minutes to edit the skills list in the CS before I realized you can't! ^^"I just hope that OpenMorrowind version 1 is a straight up vanilla-esque exe. Then re-done by adding improvements and such as updated versions.
This is being a bugger compiling
EDIT:
Probably because half the time it seems to treat warnings as errors
EDIT:
Probably because half the time it seems to treat warnings as errors
I'm glad to see that this got an okay from gstaff.
A question: do the first releases of this aim to improve on MW's lighting engine? It drives me nuts the way things are entirely dark until they get within range, and then -- poof! -- they're lit up. Especially because not everything gets within range at the same time.
A question: do the first releases of this aim to improve on MW's lighting engine? It drives me nuts the way things are entirely dark until they get within range, and then -- poof! -- they're lit up. Especially because not everything gets within range at the same time.
QUOTE(Yacoby @ Aug 10 2008, 07:02 PM)
This is being a bugger compiling
EDIT:
Probably because half the time it seems to treat warnings as errors
EDIT:
Probably because half the time it seems to treat warnings as errors
Does it link to the correct libraries? Mine doesn't
peachykeen said he/she had to copy a library over.
QUOTE(Miriele @ Aug 10 2008, 06:11 PM)
I'm glad to see that this got an okay from gstaff.
A question: do the first releases of this aim to improve on MW's lighting engine? It drives me nuts the way things are entirely dark until they get within range, and then -- poof! -- they're lit up. Especially because not everything gets within range at the same time.
A question: do the first releases of this aim to improve on MW's lighting engine? It drives me nuts the way things are entirely dark until they get within range, and then -- poof! -- they're lit up. Especially because not everything gets within range at the same time.
I never noticed this :/
Edit: Also speaking of this that are actually in the near future, It would be interesting to see Morrowind's lightning sources incorporated and the lightning remade to real time shadows like in the Doom3/FEAR Engine.
QUOTE(iio @ Aug 11 2008, 03:12 AM)
Does it link to the correct libraries? Mine doesn't peachykeen said he/she had to copy a library over.
peachykeen said he/she had to copy a library over.It compiles fine, if you take out the -Wall and -Wextra options. And I cannot work out how to remove the -Wall option in code::blocks
Edit: it compiles fine using the bash script, however, it seems to get stuck somewhere after initing ogre. I may have a play later, see if I can get it working
First of all thank you tbrick for having a go with this.
Second thanks to Gstaff and Beth for saying yes. it is very easy for a company to take the easy option and say 'No' just in case. so credit where its due there.
The big question is for tbrick, you have a nice group of people who love this game some who are experienced modders with an array of skills.
what can we do to help?
This is THE most important mod for morrowind ever.
Second thanks to Gstaff and Beth for saying yes. it is very easy for a company to take the easy option and say 'No' just in case. so credit where its due there.
The big question is for tbrick, you have a nice group of people who love this game some who are experienced modders with an array of skills.
what can we do to help?
This is THE most important mod for morrowind ever.
As mentioned, I got it to build, however it gets stuck in the setupOgre function
OK, fixed. Problem my end.
Now to go and see if I can fix some of the problems with the code. IIRC I had fixed the problem with the sound activator meshes, I will see if I can find what I did
OK, fixed. Problem my end.
Now to go and see if I can fix some of the problems with the code. IIRC I had fixed the problem with the sound activator meshes, I will see if I can find what I did
QUOTE(Yacoby @ Aug 11 2008, 08:54 AM)
As mentioned, I got it to build, however it gets stuck in the setupOgre function
OK, fixed. Problem my end.
Now to go and see if I can fix some of the problems with the code. IIRC I had fixed the problem with the sound activator meshes, I will see if I can find what I did
OK, fixed. Problem my end.
Now to go and see if I can fix some of the problems with the code. IIRC I had fixed the problem with the sound activator meshes, I will see if I can find what I did
Rargh I got Ogre to work but not the openmw build. Did you do it on Linux or Windows? I think I'll go try Code::Blocks and MinGW now. If that doesn't wok I'll try the Linux build. I shouldn't be using a Mac for Windows anyway
I used Linux, code::blocks, gdc and a lot of hacking around
Ak, forgot to mention: patch this into the next version
I couldn't find what made the markers invisible
@brick
How are you doing with exteriors? Do you want me to have a go?
CODE
void handleNiNode(NiNode data, NodePtr node)
{
//hides sound activators etc
NiStringExtraData d = cast(NiStringExtraData)data.extra;
if(d !is null)
if ( d.string == "MRK" )
return;
//rest of function goes here
{
//hides sound activators etc
NiStringExtraData d = cast(NiStringExtraData)data.extra;
if(d !is null)
if ( d.string == "MRK" )
return;
//rest of function goes here
I couldn't find what made the markers invisible
@brick
How are you doing with exteriors? Do you want me to have a go?
@Yacoby: Thanks, that fixed it!
I haven't started on the exteriors myself - and in fact the only real guide I have is your code from MorrowindRemake. If you want to give it a go, that'd be fantastic!
And to you and others who are trying to compile: I'm sorry that the build process is a bit difficult, especially on Windows. The reason is my (relative) inexperience with Windows development (I'm mostly a Linux guy.) If you have suggestions for improving the process (build scripts, better docs, code::blocks files, etc) they are VERY welcome.
@thay: I think the best way to help is just to test it out. If you are a programmer, you can test it by compiling and playing with the code. If you're a modder, you can try making mods for it etc. And if you're "just" a player, then play-testing is excellent help. At the current development stage there's not much to play with or mod though, so right now it's the programmers who rule But I think the combined knowledge and ideas of these forums (and of the modding community) is enormous, and with time we can make something great together.
I haven't started on the exteriors myself - and in fact the only real guide I have is your code from MorrowindRemake. If you want to give it a go, that'd be fantastic!
And to you and others who are trying to compile: I'm sorry that the build process is a bit difficult, especially on Windows. The reason is my (relative) inexperience with Windows development (I'm mostly a Linux guy.) If you have suggestions for improving the process (build scripts, better docs, code::blocks files, etc) they are VERY welcome.
@thay: I think the best way to help is just to test it out. If you are a programmer, you can test it by compiling and playing with the code. If you're a modder, you can try making mods for it etc. And if you're "just" a player, then play-testing is excellent help. At the current development stage there's not much to play with or mod though, so right now it's the programmers who rule
But I think the combined knowledge and ideas of these forums (and of the modding community) is enormous, and with time we can make something great together.
well I have posted this thread as a link to the team I work with.
not a programmer but an experienced beta tester with a few modders whio will say I don't mess things up too badly
once there is stuff I can play test and destroy I will be there.
not a programmer but an experienced beta tester with a few modders whio will say I don't mess things up too badly
once there is stuff I can play test and destroy I will be there.
QUOTE(Wizard of thay @ Aug 11 2008, 02:44 PM)
not a programmer but an experienced beta tester with a few modders whio will say I don't mess things up too badly
I thought a beta tester was supposed to mess things up badly? So the end users wont
An inside joke to those who know me. some of the ways i've broken some mods....
Any big things we can expect in the next version?
Will this allow us to make our own Morrowind-style games?
QUOTE(Poopskin @ Aug 14 2008, 02:19 AM)
Will this allow us to make our own Morrowind-style games?
Open source => yup.
But I hope you realise that you can't make a Morrowind-style game yourself, you have to assemble a team.
Oh Hey, this looks friggin awesome.
Also, I was looking at the legal bits and would like to point out, If you download a total conversion you could play that without the rest of morrowind I am pretty sure. xD
Also, I was looking at the legal bits and would like to point out, If you download a total conversion you could play that without the rest of morrowind I am pretty sure. xD
QUOTE(NRN_R_Sumo1 @ Aug 14 2008, 12:21 AM)
Oh Hey, this looks friggin awesome.
Also, I was looking at the legal bits and would like to point out, If you download a total conversion you could play that without the rest of morrowind I am pretty sure. xD
Also, I was looking at the legal bits and would like to point out, If you download a total conversion you could play that without the rest of morrowind I am pretty sure. xD
A total conversion replaces the game's assets but not the engine. openmw is the complete opposite in that it aims to replace the engine but not the assets so that's why it was a bit murky, legally.
Oooh, will this new engine support a higher quality of animation than morrowind?
QUOTE(Von Djangos @ Aug 14 2008, 11:56 AM)
Oooh, will this new engine support a higher quality of animation than morrowind?
Until the author reveals his how his code came together, just about anything could be on his list of enhancements.
Not to add to the workload but I had another idea come to mind.
Targeting
While hovering the cursor over an NPC or Creature press Space, some kind of visual shimmer will surround them to show they are targeted.
A targeted NPC will react to your nearby presence with their normal proximity response, as apposed to when they are not targeted where they wont comment on you ... targeting being effectively looking at that individual, to get their attention. Pressing space a second time on a targeted NPC could engage in a conversation.
Secondly a targeted NPC or Creature will have any attacks you use directed at them if they are in range. This makes using ranged weapons not so clumsy and reduces the risk of 'friendly fire' as it where. Area affects and the like will still affect all caught in its radius.
Thirdly targeting an NPC/Creature could 'reveal' any basic status on them ... the main one being the NPC/Creatures yellow health bar which normally only appears when they are attacked, but could instead appear as long as they are targeted, good for checking Companions health.
Not sure if it would work, or should be left as a future OpenMW mod, but I thought it was a good idea I'd throw out there.
Targeting
While hovering the cursor over an NPC or Creature press Space, some kind of visual shimmer will surround them to show they are targeted.
A targeted NPC will react to your nearby presence with their normal proximity response, as apposed to when they are not targeted where they wont comment on you ... targeting being effectively looking at that individual, to get their attention. Pressing space a second time on a targeted NPC could engage in a conversation.
Secondly a targeted NPC or Creature will have any attacks you use directed at them if they are in range. This makes using ranged weapons not so clumsy and reduces the risk of 'friendly fire' as it where. Area affects and the like will still affect all caught in its radius.
Thirdly targeting an NPC/Creature could 'reveal' any basic status on them ... the main one being the NPC/Creatures yellow health bar which normally only appears when they are attacked, but could instead appear as long as they are targeted, good for checking Companions health.
Not sure if it would work, or should be left as a future OpenMW mod, but I thought it was a good idea I'd throw out there.
I think you are kinda ahead of what is there and what you want.
QUOTE(MortX @ Aug 14 2008, 09:56 PM)
Secondly a targeted NPC or Creature will have any attacks you use directed at them if they are in range. This makes using ranged weapons not so clumsy and reduces the risk of 'friendly fire' as it where. Area affects and the like will still affect all caught in its radius.
I personally hate that 'feature' in games (like HL2). If I make a shot, I wanna be the one that made it, not some algorithm.
Not to mention it just causes all kinds of problems with trying to hit the explosive barrel right next to the NPC and such.
QUOTE
Thirdly targeting an NPC/Creature could 'reveal' any basic status on them ... the main one being the NPC/Creatures yellow health bar which normally only appears when they are attacked, but could instead appear as long as they are targeted, good for checking Companions health.
Maybe only for friendlies. Otherwise you might as well chat about who knows which spells and such before battle, so you know just how to kill them. Again, a bit cheat-y, IMO.
QUOTE
Oooh, will this new engine support a higher quality of animation than morrowind?
The limitations of the NIF format will probably limit what can be done anim-wise quite a bit.
QUOTE(peachykeen @ Aug 14 2008, 09:36 PM)
The limitations of the NIF format will probably limit what can be done anim-wise quite a bit.
To solve this problem, I think it would be wise to either extend the types of meshes the new engine can use beyond NIFs, or to design a custom mesh format that encompasses all the features of vanilla Morrowind nifs (Like a Morrowind Nif 2.0), and then write an algorithm/program to batch update any NIFs in the meshes folder to the new version.
You/They already have the help of the NIFskope people, I believe, so somebody should be knowledgeable about the NIF format enough to know what sucks and what is essential.
QUOTE(aged hippy @ Aug 10 2008, 10:43 AM)
Amen!Now this may be a really stupid question.
I am extremely excited about this project. GStaff - Thanks for clearing up any issues.
My one concern is the TES CS. Are we going to need a new editor to go with all of the features? Or will we just mod with the CS as we do now?
I say "mod with the CS", in fact I mod as much with MWEdit and EE as I do with the CS.
QUOTE(Sandman101 @ Aug 15 2008, 08:31 AM)
My one concern is the TES CS. Are we going to need a new editor to go with all of the features? Or will we just mod with the CS as we do now?
I say "mod with the CS", in fact I mod as much with MWEdit and EE as I do with the CS.
I say "mod with the CS", in fact I mod as much with MWEdit and EE as I do with the CS.
I dont' really know anything about this stuff, but here's some ideas anyway
For stuff that TESCS doesn't handle, external editing utilities would probably be needed. Then some references to new AI packages, animations etc would need to show up in TESCS for inclusion in esp files. Those references could be formulated to look like something that TESCS understands, but when loaded in openmw, it would recognize them as something else and load their contents from some file.
Aside from that i doubt there would be any major problems. OpenMW would likely support extended scripting features, like having MWSE-style (and beyond) functionality "out of the box".
For "hard-coded" stuff, it might get difficult to choose between options. I assume most people would enjoy Oblivion-style combat, especially spellcasting and blocking, but also a lot of people wouldn't. With stuff being open source, things can always be forked, but having a checkbox for that somewhere in options would be best to prevent community fragmentation.
QUOTE(Lord Udedenkz)
I think you are kinda ahead of what is there and what you want.
It's good to have a huge brainstorm at this time, covering as many details as possible, since all this stuff will have to be thought about at some point anyway. Having it all figured out already makes it easier to choose a way to proceed.
QUOTE(GoddamnHippie @ Aug 15 2008, 01:25 PM)
[ ... ]
For "hard-coded" stuff, it might get difficult to choose between options. I assume most people would enjoy Oblivion-style combat, especially spellcasting and blocking, but also a lot of people wouldn't. With stuff being open source, things can always be forked, but having a checkbox for that somewhere in options would be best to prevent community fragmentation.
[ ... ]
For "hard-coded" stuff, it might get difficult to choose between options. I assume most people would enjoy Oblivion-style combat, especially spellcasting and blocking, but also a lot of people wouldn't. With stuff being open source, things can always be forked, but having a checkbox for that somewhere in options would be best to prevent community fragmentation.
[ ... ]
Hello GoddamnHippie
I must admit, i fully agree with this point, i like the Morrowind style of combat, maybe it's because i've got used to it,
but i actually enjoy it.If an Oblivion-style of combat will be an option, so much the better, it will certainly attract more users, in my opinion.
Without dissing anyone, if i wish to play Oblivion-style, i'll buy Oblivion.
QUOTE(greendogo @ Aug 14 2008, 10:47 PM)
To solve this problem, I think it would be wise to either extend the types of meshes the new engine can use beyond NIFs, or to design a custom mesh format that encompasses all the features of vanilla Morrowind nifs (Like a Morrowind Nif 2.0), and then write an algorithm/program to batch update any NIFs in the meshes folder to the new version.
You/They already have the help of the NIFskope people, I believe, so somebody should be knowledgeable about the NIF format enough to know what sucks and what is essential.
You/They already have the help of the NIFskope people, I believe, so somebody should be knowledgeable about the NIF format enough to know what sucks and what is essential.
They, I'm not part of this particular project. Debating a similar undertaking, though.
Even the NifTools team doesn't really know everything about the NIF format. Reverse engineering from hex (any RE work, really) is quite difficult.
Making a new model format would be slightly outside the scope of a project like this. Some kind of wrapper, however (like an INI file that references the NIF, animation files, and a physics datafile for the mesh), would be far easier to implement.
I was under the impression that it was the morrowind engine that didnt allow animations above a certain number of frames, rather than the nif format itself (doesnt oblivion use nif animations too?)
QUOTE(Pjstaab @ Aug 13 2008, 05:13 PM)
Any big things we can expect in the next version?
WANT WANT WANT WANT WANT WANT x inf
As an amateur graphics expert let me suggest a few things:
It looks like the engine is using shadow volumes for the shadows, at least in the screenshots. OGRE supports Variance Shadow Maps, which would look much better for indoor areas.
Secondly OGRE supports many fullscreen shaders such as bloom, motion blur, and depth of field. Turning these on shouldn't be a problem I would hope. Nor would they be particularly detrimental to performance.
Anyway, that's about it.
It looks like the engine is using shadow volumes for the shadows, at least in the screenshots. OGRE supports Variance Shadow Maps, which would look much better for indoor areas.
Secondly OGRE supports many fullscreen shaders such as bloom, motion blur, and depth of field. Turning these on shouldn't be a problem I would hope. Nor would they be particularly detrimental to performance.
Anyway, that's about it.
QUOTE(tombofsoldier @ Aug 16 2008, 09:27 AM)
As an amateur graphics expert let me suggest a few things:
That sounds a bit contradictory, don't you think?
QUOTE(Von Djangos @ Aug 15 2008, 08:54 PM)
I was under the impression that it was the morrowind engine that didnt allow animations above a certain number of frames, rather than the nif format itself (doesnt oblivion use nif animations too?)
I was under that impression as well. But somebody said something to the contrary, so I came up with a suggestion. I hope it isn't because of the NIF format, even though I made my previous comment. Doing anything that I said, like making a new mesh format or using an updated NIF format would be way too complicated. I believe, though I'm not 100% sure, that Oblivion's NIF files contain additional information. I know, at least, that the NIF exporters in 3ds Max and Blender have extra settings that Morrowind's engine doesn't use (or doesn't always use?).
Increasing the number of animations would be really awesome, and I hope it can happen.
QUOTE(greendogo @ Aug 16 2008, 11:51 AM)
I was under that impression as well. But somebody said something to the contrary, so I came up with a suggestion. I hope it isn't because of the NIF format, even though I made my previous comment. Doing anything that I said, like making a new mesh format or using an updated NIF format would be way too complicated. I believe, though I'm not 100% sure, that Oblivion's NIF files contain additional information. I know, at least, that the NIF exporters in 3ds Max and Blender have extra settings that Morrowind's engine doesn't use (or doesn't always use?).
Increasing the number of animations would be really awesome, and I hope it can happen.
Increasing the number of animations would be really awesome, and I hope it can happen.
Oblivion simply uses a much more recent version of the NIF format. We have every reason in the world to support as many nif types as possible in a "new" engine.
I am afraid that we being not experts in the field of game programming are loosing the sense of reality posting more and more complicated wishes.
Have you tried the present status of the project in action? I had and I wish I could play the finalized version of the engine in this life.
Creating a game engine is a very complicated job, a team of professionals should work on that. I see only one possibility: combination of the modified existing free game engine (e,g, selected OGRE) with existing formats. This will for sure create several limitations that we must accept
The reasonable choice of format is very import and should be based on several carefully selected (discussed) criteria.
This project is based on Morrowind art work. Hence, Morrowind nif format should be by definition obligatory and completely supported either directly or using sophisticated converter (creating of such converter requires complete knowledge of MW nif format that is not published). And the most important is that such converting of MW original art work might cause legal problems. As far as I understand there is a balance between complexities of the used format and the game engine (this balance determines the speed of the engine at a great extend). For instance, nif format used in Oblivion does not support normal maps, they are not specified in Oblivion nifs, Oblivion game engine “takes” them from the fixed directory for engine endogenous processing. However, newer Gambryio versions and games based on them have normal maps specified in nif files. Similar situation is with physics.
Another very important issue is that the selected format should be completely supplied with at least exporter (better also with importer) plugins for 3D modelers (Blender, 3DS Max, Maya of different releases). Otherwise, there would be no possibility to create new models for this project. Such plugins are not that easy to program, note that NifTools plugins after several years of work are still in developmental stage.
So, I would be more humble/realistic with features requests and expectations.
There is a lot of similar requests of animation improvement. I am also not satisfied with MW PC/NPC animation system as well as with MW AI and would like them to be better in MWOpen.
However, what do you mean under “animation”? There are many types of animation even in MW: skeletal animation (PC, NPC, creatures), morph animation (animated heads); particle effects (e.g. magic visual effects); “activator animation” (e.g. opening/closing doors), animated textures (e.g. transformation of a girl face into a skull in Qarl’s Underground mod). There are also other complex types of animations that are not supported by MW e.g. several types of physics, flex etc. that could be very interesting to have in the MWOpen project. All these animation types are very differently realized on the level of creating, file format features (different nif nodes), scripting.
I think that being more specific we would be more helpful for the project designer/s.
Have you tried the present status of the project in action? I had and I wish I could play the finalized version of the engine in this life.
Creating a game engine is a very complicated job, a team of professionals should work on that. I see only one possibility: combination of the modified existing free game engine (e,g, selected OGRE) with existing formats. This will for sure create several limitations that we must accept
The reasonable choice of format is very import and should be based on several carefully selected (discussed) criteria.
This project is based on Morrowind art work. Hence, Morrowind nif format should be by definition obligatory and completely supported either directly or using sophisticated converter (creating of such converter requires complete knowledge of MW nif format that is not published). And the most important is that such converting of MW original art work might cause legal problems. As far as I understand there is a balance between complexities of the used format and the game engine (this balance determines the speed of the engine at a great extend). For instance, nif format used in Oblivion does not support normal maps, they are not specified in Oblivion nifs, Oblivion game engine “takes” them from the fixed directory for engine endogenous processing. However, newer Gambryio versions and games based on them have normal maps specified in nif files. Similar situation is with physics.
Another very important issue is that the selected format should be completely supplied with at least exporter (better also with importer) plugins for 3D modelers (Blender, 3DS Max, Maya of different releases). Otherwise, there would be no possibility to create new models for this project. Such plugins are not that easy to program, note that NifTools plugins after several years of work are still in developmental stage.
So, I would be more humble/realistic with features requests and expectations.
QUOTE
Increasing the number of animations would be really awesome, and I hope it can happen.
There is a lot of similar requests of animation improvement. I am also not satisfied with MW PC/NPC animation system as well as with MW AI and would like them to be better in MWOpen.
However, what do you mean under “animation”? There are many types of animation even in MW: skeletal animation (PC, NPC, creatures), morph animation (animated heads); particle effects (e.g. magic visual effects); “activator animation” (e.g. opening/closing doors), animated textures (e.g. transformation of a girl face into a skull in Qarl’s Underground mod). There are also other complex types of animations that are not supported by MW e.g. several types of physics, flex etc. that could be very interesting to have in the MWOpen project. All these animation types are very differently realized on the level of creating, file format features (different nif nodes), scripting.
I think that being more specific we would be more helpful for the project designer/s.
QUOTE(A1x2e3l @ Aug 16 2008, 07:04 PM)
However, what do you mean under “animation”?
I think that most people here are hoping for better npc/player animations. For the walking, jumping, fighting, etc.
But for better animations people have to make these animations which is a daunting task.
QUOTE
I think that most people here are hoping for better npc/player animations. For the walking, jumping, fighting, etc.
This is NOT the task of a game engine. Game engine is responsible for transitions between animation sequences (often problematic in MW), control of what sequence should be displayed at a certain moment (MW has many limitations here), how animated actor will interact with other game scene objects (collision detection/propagation system, physics), such sort of things but NOT for skeleton animation content per se. PC/NPC animations are stored in nif files and their creating is the job of animators/artists working in 3D modelers (such animation is also an art).
These nif animations could be significantly improved for MW without any need of the new engine features but this is huge, huge artistic work.
QUOTE(A1x2e3l @ Aug 16 2008, 12:58 PM)
This is NOT the task of a game engine. Game engine is responsible for transitions between animation sequences (often problematic in MW), control of what sequence should be displayed at a certain moment (MW has many limitations here), how animated actor will interact with other game scene objects (collision detection/propagation system, physics), such sort of things but NOT for skeleton animation content per se. PC/NPC animations are stored in nif files and their creating is the job of animators/artists working in 3D modelers (such animation is also an art).
These nif animations could be significantly improved for MW without any need of the new engine features but this is huge, huge artistic work.
These nif animations could be significantly improved for MW without any need of the new engine features but this is huge, huge artistic work.
Yeah, thats what I said. Kinda.
QUOTE(povuholo @ Aug 16 2008, 05:35 AM)
That sounds a bit contradictory, don't you think?
Heh, just like in the Old Spice commercial-- "I'm a former-make-believe doctor, and I can tell you that you don't need a prescription for Old Spice Wetness Protection"
QUOTE(Von Djangos @ Aug 15 2008, 09:54 PM)
I was under the impression that it was the morrowind engine that didnt allow animations above a certain number of frames, rather than the nif format itself (doesnt oblivion use nif animations too?)
There is also a limitation in how the animations are encoded, I think. You can't do certain things, like advanced anim effects, in the NIF format. I think most of them are more NIF than just how Morrowind does things.
As for changing/adding anims, if the note tags aren't hard-coded, it shouldn't be difficult to expand there. You would, of course, have to make sure the animation you called had the proper sequence.
Speaking of animations - if the nif format is proprietry then why not add support for other formats? Why not have a base functionality for the nif files and then do everything else in another format. If the engine is to be re-written then I don't see why we have to still be limited to the nif format.
QUOTE
As for changing/adding anims, if the note tags aren't hard-coded, it shouldn't be difficult to expand there. You would, of course, have to make sure the animation you called had the proper sequence.
Quite on the text keys are hard coded in MW and we cannot add new animations only replace. For instance: there only 7 usable (properly scriptable) idle animation tags (Idle3-9) and it not possible to add e.g. “Idle10” tag, MW game engine will not recognize how to process it. Moreover, we are limited with the number of combat animations (only replacement of originals is possible), there is no chance to add and control (e.g. combos) completely new combat animation. Another example is levitation animation (there are many requests to change it for something different than walking circles) – these is no easy solutions for that.
QUOTE
Speaking of animations - if the nif format is proprietry then why not add support for other formats? Why not have a base functionality for the nif files and then do everything else in another format. If the engine is to be re-written then I don't see why we have to still be limited to the nif format.
What is the function of format? I guess to present all sorts of artistic work (static meshes, skeleton models, particle effects, animation data, etc.) in the “understandable” for the game engine unified compact form. Game engine has limited recourses (computer memory etc.). Having such limited recourses so to say ether you can learn one foreign language perfectly, or several but knowing only few words and grammar rules. Moreover, this might be not interesting and very difficult to program for MWOpen developer/s (MW art work (in nif format) was selected as basal).
QUOTE(povuholo @ Aug 16 2008, 04:35 AM)
That sounds a bit contradictory, don't you think?
No. I'm an expert amateur chess player - literally, "expert" is the title given to players of my strength by the United States Chess Federation. It's not a contradiction for a person to be an expert in a field in which they don't make their living. :^)
I wonder, what could be done with traps (on chests, doors, and occasionally urns) in a new engine? Could a new spell effect be created which would disable them? Does anyone have any ideas about traps in general? I've always felt they were a pretty sloppy part of the game.
I guess I should start a new thread now? I will include info that it is legal, link to screenshots, and info about the creator, link to this thread, and a quote from site about OpenMW... or no?
QUOTE(Lord Udedenkz @ Aug 16 2008, 10:47 PM)
I guess I should start a new thread now? I will include info that it is legal, link to screenshots, and info about the creator, link to this thread, and a quote from site about OpenMW... or no?
Sounds good to me!
Incase anybody has their bookmark/favorite set to this thread and don't check for the new one, the new one is up, here's a link.
