I know there are some plugin's out there that one shouldn't clean with said tool, so I thought it would be a good idea to start a list so people would be aware.

Actually, I don't know any off the top of my head so somebody else will have to start this up.

Compiled list (6/19):

Mournhold Clockmaker

Private Mobil Base

The Unofficial Patch

The Goblin Lab

Giants

Marksman Mod

Black Mill

Solstheim Castle

Multi Mark

Vampire Embrace

Korobal Island

White Wolf of Lokken Mountain

Blood and Gore (?)

Wizards Island

Any Balance Mod (Wakim’s, Big Mod, etc.)


Remember, this isn't all science, some people experience a bug free game without ever cleaning anything. There is a certain amount of luck involved with this, haha, so go for it. Furthermore, I recommend you do not use the merged dialogue esp...it usually causes more problems than it solves.

Two right out of the top of my head are;

Vampire Embrace

Multi Mark

Umm I would perfer if people didn't clean Solstheim Castle with Testool. Testool keeps deleting the empty hit sounds for the Mannequins...so they start screaming again when you walk in the room. I should have put that in the readme, can't tell you how many people sent me emails complaining about screaming mannequins...and everytime they admited to cleaning it with testool (no need to...it's already cleaned)

This is a great idea. Hope we get lots and lots and this gets pinned... somewhere...

Diva

I remember some unhappy results when I ran Blood and Gore through testool. But the problems I had could have come from elsewhere too...hard to be absolutely certain.

I believe one should not clean Wizards Island or Golblin Laboratory with testool. (these are just off the top of my head, though, and I may be wrong)

This is a great idea. I've nothing to add at the moment, but I still like the idea.

I don't clean mods any more with TESTool. I think it causes more problems than it solves.

Yes - but I get tired of removing all the GMSTs by hand. Just found out about the plug-in that you put last that'll do that for you.

Well, I don't use a lot of mods that (I hope) alter GMST's.

Bloodmoon spell fix and Combat Angle adjustmant both rely on gmst's.

ANY balance mod, such as Wakim's, Taddeus or 'Big Mod', etc, should not be cleaned.

'Marksman Mod' should not be cleaned.

'Giants' should not be cleaned.

Those are the ones I can think of off the top of my head.

Are you sure about Big Mod? I have observed it with Enchanted Editor recently and I did not like what I saw there. I have even disabled it for now (too many of the 72 evil GMSTs to clean them manually, and TESTool, yeah it removes a lot of cells, GMSTs and whatnot - dirt? ). And I dislike the wealthy Creeper who buys everything and teleports you to some places BTW. Economy fixes delete that anyway...

GIANTs just looks like it contains (4) of the evil GMSTs, but TESTool does not touch 'em (no idea what sort of intelligence behind that).

Bloodmoon spellfix should not be necessary if you clean every plugin thoroughly (or if you just put "GMST fix" to the end of the load order). Also I think I have not even seen any GMSTs in BM spellfix.

I just took a look in Big Mod to make sure and it does change a few GMSTs other than the evil 72. Now I'm not an expert on how TESTool goes about its business so it's possible it may ignore any GMST outside of the 'Gang Of 72'. If it does, then most of these mods are in no trouble, as most of the GMSTs changed by the named mods are not among the 72.

However, if it removes references to any GMSTs then 'Big Mod' should stay on the list.

EDIT: I see Horatio is about to post. Ignore anything I say in favor of his post.

You shouldn't remove GMST entries from any mods that alter the balance of the game. TESTool won't remove these either. You should be very suspicious of any non-balance/gameplay mod containing GMSTs.

The "Evil GMSTs" are GMSTs that were added in the expansion. They will appear in any mod saved when only Morrowind.esm is loaded in the editor (as opposed to having tribunal.esm and bloodmoon.esm loaded as well).

As for the TESTool cleaner, Wiz Islands doesn't like it. Haven't had any other issues with it. It really shouldn't make much difference if you clean the mods if you're using the "Merge Objects" function anyway.

It doesn't even do anything about real unclean entries anyway, which would be something the author inadvertently changed without meaning to.

Cheers

h

Fairly certain that TESTool only deletes the 72 GMSTs. I don't think GMST cleaning is the function of TESTool which will cause problems. Merging Levelled Lists most likely is also harmless... But I'm not sure about merging objects, and I've heard plenty of times not to merge dialogue, that that will cause all sorts of error-y goodness.

I don't really understand what's going on with those latter two. What exactly about the objects and dialogue is supposed to be merged, why does TESTool do that, and what does it mess up?

It removes some of them, but not everyone. Unfortunately the testool.log for BigMod is too large to post it here, just the first part:

[QUOTE]File: BigMod 2.2.esp
==============================
deleted GMST sTeleportDisabled
deleted GMST sLevitateDisabled
deleted GMST sWerewolfRefusal
deleted GMST sWerewolfPopup
deleted GMST sWerewolfRestMessage
deleted GMST sWerewolfAlarmMessage
deleted GMST sMaxSale
deleted GMST sDeleteNote
deleted GMST sEditNote
deleted GMST sProfitValue
deleted GMST sCompanionShare
deleted GMST sCompanionWarningMessage
deleted GMST sCompanionWarningButtonOne
deleted GMST sCompanionWarningButtonTwo
deleted GMST fDamageStrengthMult
deleted GMST fEffectCostMult
deleted GMST fCorpseClearDelay
deleted GMST iLevelupTotal
deleted GMST iLevelupMinorMult
deleted GMST iLevelUp02Mult
deleted GMST iLevelUp03Mult
deleted GMST iLevelUp05Mult
deleted GMST iLevelUp06Mult
deleted GMST iLevelUp08Mult
deleted GMST iLevelUp10Mult
deleted GMST fHandToHandReach
deleted GMST iTrainingMod
deleted GMST fSleepRestMod
deleted GMST fWereWolfRunMult
deleted GMST fWereWolfSilverWeaponDamageMult
deleted GMST iWereWolfBounty
deleted GMST fWereWolfStrength
deleted GMST fWereWolfAgility
deleted GMST fWereWolfEndurance
deleted GMST fWereWolfSpeed
deleted GMST fWereWolfHandtoHand
deleted GMST fWereWolfUnarmored
deleted GMST iWereWolfLevelToAttack
deleted GMST iWereWolfFightMod
deleted GMST iWereWolfFleeMod
deleted GMST fWereWolfAthletics
deleted GMST fWereWolfAcrobatics
deleted GMST fWereWolfHealth
deleted GMST fWereWolfFatigue
deleted GMST fWereWolfMagicka
deleted GMST fWereWolfIntellegence
deleted GMST fWereWolfWillPower
deleted GMST fWereWolfPersonality
deleted GMST fWereWolfLuck
deleted GMST fWereWolfBlock
deleted GMST fWereWolfArmorer
deleted GMST fWereWolfMediumArmor
deleted GMST fWereWolfHeavyArmor
deleted GMST fWereWolfBluntWeapon
deleted GMST fWereWolfLongBlade
deleted GMST fWereWolfAxe
deleted GMST fWereWolfSpear
deleted GMST fWereWolfDestruction
deleted GMST fWereWolfAlteration
deleted GMST fWereWolfIllusion
deleted GMST fWereWolfConjuration
deleted GMST fWereWolfMysticism
deleted GMST fWereWolfRestoration
deleted GMST fWereWolfEnchant
deleted GMST fWereWolfAlchemy
deleted GMST fWereWolfSecurity
deleted GMST fWereWolfSneak
deleted GMST fWereWolfLightArmor
deleted GMST fWereWolfShortBlade
deleted GMST fWereWolfMarksman
deleted GMST fWereWolfMerchantile
deleted GMST fWereWolfSpeechcraft
deleted GMST fCombatDistanceWerewolfMod
deleted GMST fFleeDistance
deleted GMST sEffectSummonFabricant
deleted GMST sEffectSummonCreature01
deleted GMST sEffectSummonCreature02
deleted GMST sEffectSummonCreature03
deleted GMST sEffectSummonCreature04
deleted GMST sEffectSummonCreature05
deleted GMST sMagicFabricantID
deleted GMST sMagicCreature01ID
deleted GMST sMagicCreature02ID
deleted GMST sMagicCreature03ID
deleted GMST sMagicCreature04ID
deleted GMST sMagicCreature05ID
deleted GLOB abelmawiaCounter
deleted SPEL voice of the emperor
deleted SPEL star-curse
deleted SPEL charioteer ability
deleted SPEL wrath of dagoth
deleted SPEL wrath of vivec

...

deleted STAT Furn_colony_stonetable01
deleted CREA skeleton_stahl_uni
CELL 15 1, Tel Fyr

... [a lot of CELLS]

CELL Vivec's Scibe
deleted INFO 871739891262229779 ; IL_Grandmaster
deleted INFO 576932167290605878 ; Vassir Didanat Mine
deleted INFO 1167237432045126568 ; theater troupe
deleted INFO 17545243371364211941 ; little advice
deleted INFO 31437326142699821404 ; little secret
deleted INFO 16027228191418416208 ; latest rumors
deleted INFO 46509113264814047 ; Ralen Tilvur
deleted INFO 20481194642735427051 ; Greeting 1
deleted DIAL theater troupe ; empty dialog
deleted DIAL Telvanni spy ; empty dialog
deleted DIAL elementals ; empty dialog
deleted DIAL Balmora ; empty dialog
==============================
Saved: Clean BigMod 2.2.esp

EDIT: Yes, a list about which mods should not be dialog merged would be good also:

The white wolf of Lokken mountain !!!

Never merge dialogue on big quest mods, IMO.

PS regarding Big Mod:
Do you also have Creeper with 105,000 buying everything and 5,000 Gold in (one of the first) container with Fagoth's Ring?

This one I have is so freaking unbelievable dirty that it looks like it could have been tweaked by a "Fan"...

Modders nowadays should know about cleaning tools and if by any means they play with GMSTs, they should clearly state about this in their readmes - > otherwise even the best mod is going to be forwarded to my trash bin directly!

No problem here .

Yep, I think the same way. I've never really been bothered by 'unclean mods', so usually I ignore all the 'world is ending because of GMSTs' talk. I also rarely tear apart mods, or automaticly trash them. I just don't care.

Big Mod changes just about everything in the game, doesn't it? Thats a big 'don't clean' sign to me.

the only thing I do with testool is run the lvled list and the object merger. (then I have to run the lvled list resequencer to pick up where testool left off)

I disagree. You obviously just do not think about the root causes for "unknown" things like malfunctioning summon fabricant/bear/wolf spells and whatnot. This (and more) exactly is caused by dirty mods which containt the 72 evil GMST crap.

eh, I don't summon those things. Never have, probably never will. What else is causing the sky to fall?

Most GMST's are from BloodMoon and relate to Werewolf Stats, there is a few (11) in Tribunal tough that seems to control "Mazed Band" and ehh something about NPC's sharing stuff (The Tribunal Mercenary Perhaps?)

I guess I will have to take a closer look at the Mods in your sig...

I try to remember to clean my own mods before uploading, just because it's a pain to listen to the outcry. I also don't like the idea of my 'hard' work getting thrown away because of 72 somethings that I don't see affecting my game in any way. But I do try.

Be very careful about how you clean using TESTool, I'd recommend using both restricted cleaning options (Restricted Dialogue & Cell cleaning) at all times. My understanding is that the restricted cleaning modes only remove entries that are identical to stock morrowind.esm entries.

I think a lot of the problems people are reporting are due to cleaning mods without the restricted cleaning options active, this sort of over-zealous cleaning will probably break a lot of things

edit:
A few people seem to be confused about GMST entries in mods. Not all GMST entries are bad, what is bad is including the default (un-changed) values of any GMST. Loading this default value after a mod that alters the value of that game setting will undo the prior change. Remember that mods are loaded in sequential order and that anything loaded later will overwrite something loaded earlier.

Also bad are the 'evil 72' GMSTs, these are 72 tribunal/bm settings that are set to 0 and added to any mod saved w/o bloodmoon.esm or tribunal.esm active. These tend to break spells & quests from tribunal & bloodmoon, hence the bad reputation.

This is why I use the 'Just Fix It!' feature of TESTool. JFI uses the restricted cleaning, which I've always felt more comfortable using. I then resequence (although my merged lists rarely need to be resequenced - I could probably safely skip this step) and delete the Merged Dialogs .esp.

The last posts explain a lot of my open questions, thanks.

But I am curious about another one. I have taken a look into a masterfile (esm) with enchanted editor and found 4 GMSTs from the evil 72 GMST list (doublechecked it line by line). TEStool did not remove these GMSTs ?! I assume this is because it was a masterfile?

PS: Disregard this, I have received the answer from the author of the esm: "If you are using the bloodmoon versions, those GMST entries are supposed to be there.
They enable you to summon ancient ... and ancient ...", removed what exactly to not confuse someone about which esm it was. That means: TEStool seems to be a very intelligent tool in this case. It does not even remove INTENDED GMSTs even if they are on the "evil list". Impressive.

White Wolf of Lokken will be broken if you use TESTool on the dialog.
Same goes for Witchgirl Adventure, and most likely for the rest of my mods.

Dialog-intense mods don't get along with TESTool!!

Thanks for that explaination, Halo. I am now better informed.
Emma, you're talking about merging the dialog right? Not just cleaning your mods?

I BELIEVE I am only talking about the dialog. I must admit that I haven't used TESTool, myself, I have just tried to help those who have had issues with the dialog after using TESTool on it.

You are probably right - cleaning the mod wouldn't cause any problems. But... I wouldn't believe that I have left anything for you to clean in them?? I thought everything I have uploaded was completely clean already?

This is correct. I could have relied on your ultra clean mods, but yesterday I have gone through my complete plugin list one by one, so... but I have found absolutely nada, superclean.

Ive never used TESTool so i dont know the exact names of all the things i should put in my readme for you not to do with VE.
Are these the correct TESTool names?

Dialog merge
Just fix it

You've got it - fwiw I merged dialogues from your mods a while back and it caused all sorts of problems, I highly recommend not doing that...

Another question:

After running TEStool (with the fix all option) are things like dialog removed PERMANENTLY from a mod like White Wolf of Lokken, or only when you have the 'Merged Dialog' esp ticked?

A while ago I was told to always run TESTools, so I did. I had problems with broken quests and everything. Now I'm about to start up a new character, do I have to reinstall all my ESP's, or can i just leave the Merged Dialog and Merged Items list unticked?

I think this post pretty much covers this:



The merged dialogs.esp is similar to merged objects.esp and the merged levelled lists. The merged lists function itself does not change any mod, just it adds an esp to the end of the load order, which can be removed afterwards. Removal of merged dialogs ist recommended because of the many script sensitive dialog mods, from my understanding so far.

Merged Objects BTW is untagged in my setup also. I just have seen a couple of hairless heads and missing calves with this.

I used testool since 1st beta version, and never had any pbls using merging lists and objects.
On the other hand as I dont use Vgreetings I never used the dialogue merging option (On the read me of testools it says that only Vgreetings or similar mods shoud be merged for dialogues).
I never deleted the gmt's with testool, still use old tesame for that (That way I delete only the 72 bad 1).
So why I advogue the use of testool?
Cause is the best tool to order, reagroup and display the esp/esm
And cause with Aerelon resenquencer, creates the most safe leveled lists. to use (Hotatio's leveled list merger only creates the merged lists and as Aerelon resequencer does not patch it, has the same pbls as Testools without patch)

The BM spellfix I have relies on GMSTs. And even with thoroughly clean plugins I still need it to have those spells work (I think the fix I have also works with the Trib spells).

What's the best for levelled list merging? I've never had to do it before, but I've got some mods I want to try where I would need to do it.

1) TES plugin tool 1.3 to create the levelled list:
http://www34.brinkster.com/ghostwheel/

2) Aerolorns resequencer tool (which I do not find any more)

Thanks DWS
Resequencing is just changing file order, right? I can do that with Properties Plus (lets me change the file date).

No, the resequencer is a tool to fix a bug in the leveled list merge function of TESTool.

Here's the old release thread describing what it does.

Found it on the Summit:

Leveled List Resequencer for TESTool at Morrowind Summit

Thanks yall

There are 9 possible Morrowind.exe files. ( 3 original releases and 6 patches )
Each TESCS.exe had/has within itself all the GMSTs that were recognized by the game at the time the exe or patch was released. The three ESM files also have all the GMSTs in them that were recognized by the game at the time they were released. But the values of the GMSTs in the esm files differ from the values in the exe file. ( A way to see this for yourself is to open the editor and NOT load any esm or esps. Export the Gamesettings. Now open the editor and inlude the esm files and again export the Gamesettings. Compare the two exported textfiles and you will see the differences.)
So suppose a modder makes a mod using the latest version of TESCS.exe ( 1.6.1820 which has all the GMSTs from MW and Trib and BM already coded into the exe file ), if said modder does not incude the BM esm file and the TRIB esm file when he opens the editor to make his mod, but only uses the MW esm, as soon as he saves his mod, the TESCS.exe will write ITS values of the GMSTs for Trib and BM into the mod. Voilá 72 bad gmst values included.
If the modder includes the Trib and BM esms when making his mod he had made the mod require that the user have BM and TRIB; if he doesn't include the BM and TRIB esm files, he has created a dirty mod. Most of the BM only GMST values affect werewolves but the TRIB GMST values effect spells, bartering and a bunch of other issues.

There is a bug in the way TESTOOL handles the merging of levelled lists. Basically a levelled list compares the PC's character level to some set value and populates spawn points or containers with appropriate creatures or loot for that character level. It is why you see Mudcrabs and rats when you are level 1 and GoldenSaints and such when you are level 30. Testool in merging levelled lists appended entries from newer mods onto the end of the list. So if a mod wanted to add new creatures at level 1 to a existing list, the player never got to see the creatures at the appropriate level at that spawn point.
http://www.elricm.com/nuke/html/modules.ph...download&sid=20 is the current home for the Levelled List Resequencer by Aerelorn.

There are several hundred GMSTs in the game. They control the equations that determing everything from combat to barter to levelling to disposition, to speed of travel and on and on. They are some of the finest and most precise tools for modding the game and are also sadly underdocumented. GBG's Morrowind Modding for Dummies has a table of them and some explanation of what they control in the appendix of his massive 8th edition. ( also found at the above mentioned web site ).

Just to give one example of the power and precision of GMST's, consider the money pump that is PC made potions. One GMST ( its default value is 2 ) can turn this pump off without removing the magical effects of the potions ( if that GMST is set to 0 ) or can cut the sales price of the potions in half ( if that GMST is set to 1 ).
TESTOOL will not clean that GMST because it is not one of the evil 72.

Merging Objects. If you try to merge objects in the TESCS, the newer object completely overwrites the older one. If you use TESTOOL only the changes in the newer object overwrite. If you have three mods that change various parts of the same object, TESTOOL will merge the changes from each mod into the object. If you have three mods that change the SAME part of an object, only the newest mod's changes will take effect. ( So you could have one mod that changes a spear's reach and another that changes its weight and a third that changes its effect on magical critters and TESTOOL will merge those three different parts of the object, but if the three mods all effect the spear's weight, only the newest mod ( by date stamp ) would take effect.

Merging dialogue. In theory, since all new dialogue entries get random INAM values and the PNAM and FNAM that allows the dialogues to be relinked is supplied by the TESCS.exe routines, merging the dialogues should not be a problem. In actuality, theory is not always spot on. Especially when modders insist on placing their new dialogues at the very top or very bottom of sections. JOG had a very long post explaining this a while ago and EMMA has links to that post on her site ( I believe ).

Cleaning in general. TESTOOL defaults to creating a new mod named CLEANmodname. TESTOOL does not by default change anything in the original mod at all. Check cleanmod, uncheck the original mod in the load list and play.
If you have cleaned and merged however and decide to remove a mod, remember to re merge after you have unchecked the mod you decide to remove.

When you start MW, first the MW.exe file loads, then the esm's load, then the esp load in order from the load list ( not the order in MW.ini ), Then your saved game ess loads and overwrites the data already in memory with the appropriate data from the ess. This is why if you are going to merge objects, dialogue, levelled lists, those esp should be last in the load list. Each esp loaded overwrites the relevant data in any previously loaded esp and esm and the exe.

I believe that ThePal has suggested that the Unofficial Patch does not need cleaning.

If I have used the update time function to put a mod to the end of load order, unfortunately (?) this timestamp is something about year 2020. I have to do this repeatedly because some mods need a special load order (like compatibility fixes have to be loaded after the mods which they change). Now if I proceed with "fix it all" or with the single step merges, the merged lists appear before this year 2020 plugins. Does that mean, everything behind the merge list is not in the merge? And if so, can I just put the merge lists to the end and it would reliably work all right?
Somehow I have a bad feeling with changing the place of the merge lists. Probably I should decrease the 2020 plugins down to current date, so the merged lists would appear at the end automatically...

http://files.tessource.net/files.php?cat=1...=&order=&page=2

You can use the reorder plugins tool here to change the load order instead of testool. It works and is easy to use but sometimes the mere act of opening the program seems to change the load order for me anyhow...so suggest you write down your existing order before using this so you can restore it once you fire up the utility.

I think I know some nice tools for changing the date:

http://www.nirsoft.net/utils/filedatech.html
http://www.ne.jp/asahi/cool/kish/pplusmain.htm

As long as the merged lists are at the end of the line/last to load when morrowind starts up, you are fine. So just use TesTool again after "just fixing it" to re order your plugins. But, as others have suggested, I wouldn't use the dialogue merger esp, seems to cause problems, especially with dialogue heavy quests.

Horatio, doesn't your ESP Cleaner essential work the same way as TesTool does in regards to cleaning? ie: both scan plugin X to see if any changed entries are actually the same in morrowind.esm, tribunal.esm and bloodmoon.esm, then, if there are some, deletetion occurs, as these entries are not needed and potential could override another mod's data. This depends on load order of course.

When you use TESTOOL to merge lists etc, it only merges from esp files that you have marked as active in your load list. If you want, for example, to merge dialogues of all your mods except for Vampire Embrace. Uncheck VE in the active list, run the merge, and then recheck VE.
If you have an esp that loads after the mergeddialogue, mergedobjects, mergedlevelledlist esps, that mod's values will overwrite the specific values in the merge esps. A good general rule is to do the cleaning first, then select the mods you want to deactivate for specific merges, do the specific merge, reactivate the deactivated mods; and then do a refresh on the active mod list to see what the load order willbe. If necessary use the TESTOOL function to change the datestamps on the merge esps to bring them to the end of the list. Some modders have used the 2020 datestamp as a workaround for specific hardcoded errors in the game engine. If that is the case with the mod you are using, just leave it at 2020 and have the merge esps load right before it.

I have never used the fixitall command in TESTOOL. That is just personal preference on my part. I tend to study mods in the editor before I add them to the game or clean them. Other folks have reported using the fixitall command with absolutely no problems. YMMV.

How much of a bad idea would be to clean, say, Necessities of Morrowind (or a plugin that included it, like BEER!)?

It is a shame I had not run across this thread earlier because its answered alot of questions I had about how to do things and also about the mysterious GMST's I always hear about. A special heads up to Iudas for giving the best explanation I have seen yet on this subject.

Iudas is one of this forum's best natural resources.

I have to start a new game for the second time now because of problems with my mods. I thought about putting my mods together (I've heared several times that having many mods overwriting each other can cause problems) into 1 esp file. I thought about using tesame to export the entries of one mod and import them to another. If one entry already exists i create a merged.esp of both mods via testool. Then I check if the enty in the merged.esp overwrites the entries of both mods via tescd. If that's the case with all entries, I import the merged.esp values to the combined .esp file overwriting the entries.

Do you think this will work or are there entries not detected by tesame or tescd?

Yeah, it works now. "Just fix it all", the 3 merged lists are at the right place automatically now. And I just deactivate merged dialogs at the end. Playtesting... smooth, everything looks to be at the right place, clean and without load warnings any more.



I do not (want to) understand this complex attempt. Why don't you just use the merge loaded plugins function of TESCS for this? You just have to load the (to be merged) plugins into TESCS without making one of them "active file", just ignore the warning about that. Then you go "file" -> merge loaded plugins and save the result to a new (merged) plugin.

I often use a whole bunch of quest mods at the same time, and I often use TEStool on them. In my experience, there are only very rare occasions of quest breaking problems. I had some problems with scripted NPCs, like people in prisons in Korobal Island or the Black Mill, or some guy in Suran in the FTG mod (a very sensitive mod that should load late), but most other quest mods have no problems at all.

As more mods hang scripts on NPCs, the inability to merge scripts will be a bigger and bigger cleaning problem.

Spock, I think you are going the long way around the barn to close the door. If you decide that you want to use the Editor to merge several mods into one combined mod, let me suggest that you combine mods that have nothing to do with each other. In other words do not try to combine 10 or 12 weapon mods into one combined mod. The editor is very much a sledgehammer when it combines mods even when you do it properly by not setting an active mod.


The check is in the mail.

Dmitri I have cleaned NOM in the past and do not remember having suffered any negartive consequences. I think NOM is one of the cleanest mods there is already. Remember when you clean a mod with TESTOOL, TESTOOL writes a textfile that elaborates all the changes made in creating the CLeanModName.esp. Worth reading that little text file each time you clean a mod. Problem is that TESTOOL overwrites that textfile each time it cleans a mod, so if one wants to know what TESTOOL has done it is mandatory to only clean one file at a time and then read the logfile. Exactly the way MW creates the programflow.txt and the warnings.txt, MW overwrites those files each time either the game or the editor is started.

I find all of this extreamly confuseing. I don't know if cleaning my mods was such a good idea after reading this long list of it will,can,may do such in such to your game. Now i think I need to go back thru and put all the origenal mod files back into my game and say screw it on cleaning any of the files. Start a new game and move on. This tread almost makes it sound like any gmst errors would be perferable to the possible errors caused by testool.

So far the only thing I'm aware the gmst errors cause is a few problems with bloodmoon spells. If I'm wrong please let me know.

Well besides getting rid of mod errors and conflicts, cleaning can also improve performance and stability of the game. I highly recommend that you clean your plugin's, using TesTool or another 3rd party program available.

It's not as daunting or scary as you think. It's just about making the game play as smoothly and error free as possible.

Well, I am not quite sure now also.


http://members.optusnet.com.au/argent2/mw/tech/gmst.html

This is what I think to be the best solution for me:

1) Uncheck the Mods:
- Vampire Embrace
-Multi Mark
-Solstheim Castle
-Black Mill
-Balancing Mods (all of them)
-Marksman Mod
-Giants (I know this is clean anyway)

2) Fix it all button (TesTool)

3) Uncheck merged dialogs

4) Check the Mods from step 1) again.

If there are more Mods which should not be cleaned and they are not mentioned in this thread or in their readmes -> bad luck.

So your advice would be use it but have it restrict Cell and dialog cleaning?

I've already replaced all the mods that I can with the origenal files. Some of my custom made ones can't be done like that without me going back to a previous version and readding all the changes I made to em. Which I really just don't feel like doing. I've already restarted my game countless times do to problems and would like to be able to just sit back and enjoy for a change.

On another note that lvl resequncer didn't do anything at all for me even tho I know I've merged at least a couple different creature lvls lists.

The readme of TESTool tells me that "Fix it all" button proceeds with restricted cells cleaning only.

PS: Forgotten some steps :

5) Create a seperate levelled object and levelled creatures list with all Mods activated

6) Aerolorns resequencer

7) Start a new game, cheat the summon fabricant spell (by console) and test if this works...

since this thread is such a good idea I need to bump it by saying "do not" clean my mod changing faces with testool I just did it myself and opps it erased nearly all of my changes to the npcs.

Besides my mod is already cleaned washed it two times

Uah, Leeloo, I already stone-washed it by "fix" button again... Well, I have got them all zipped in a backup, no problem.

All right, lemme update my little list then:

1) Uncheck the Mods:
-Vampire Embrace
-Multi Mark
-Solstheim Castle
-Black Mill
-Balancing Mods (all of them)
-Unofficial Patch (ThePal)
-Marksman Mod
-Giants
-White Wolf of Lokken Mountain
-Changing Faces Replacer (Leeloo's)

2) Fix it all button (TesTool)

3) Uncheck merged dialogs

4) Check the Mods from step 1) again.

5) Create a seperate levelled object and levelled creatures list with all Mods activated

6) Aerolorns resequencer

7) Start a new game, cheat the summon fabricant spell (by console) and test if this works...

I have run Changing Faces through the 'Just Fix It!' process with no problems. I wouldn't worry about it.

If a mod is already clean restricted cleaning with TESTool will not affect it.


I'm not sure how you come to that conclusion, TRPStrife. Read Iudas' posts again: it is pretty clear that restricted cleaning is preferrable to no cleaning at all.

Private mobile Base will be destroyed if you mess with it.

I do believe that it also includes cleaning.

Merging is a big nono.

In general, mod makers probably know more about modding and cleaning than mod users so it is better for them to clean their own mods as they are the only ones who can do it safely in the case of complex dialog mods.

There isnt really an excuse for a well known mod not to be already clean (the author would be hounded until he cleaned it).

Perhaps if something like telesphoroses list could tell people if mods were already clean it may make things easier for users.

Summit is doing something like that in that they tell you if the mod has the evil 72 GMST's.

And the fact that every third mod I look at on Summit has said GMSTs tells me that there's an over abundance of modders who don't clean their mods.

Trust no one is my motto, I check every mod in the CS etc. before it gets anywhere near my playlist.

Trouble...

Everything all right until step 5). When I try to create a merged object list with every plugin (some 250) activated then TESTool CTDs in the middle of the process (always).

Now, interestingly with "fix it all" button, and with the plugins from the list deactivated of course, the merged object list is created without issues.

What now? Can I use the old merged object list from the "fix all" process together with the (now) activated excluded plugins from the don't-fix-them-all list?

You are running into the upper limit of files. Counting esm and esp, the game limit is 255 unique files. That is all the engine can handle.
If you wish to play with more than that many expansions and mods, you are going to have to use the editor or TESAME to merge existing mods before you try to run TESTOOL to create your merged objects merged dialogues and merged levelled lists esps.
So if you are playing with MW, TRIB, BM, and creating the three merged mini mods with TESTOOL, you are left with 249 other mods.

But... Morrowind starts with all of the files activated.

I recall that once I had exceeded the limit a few weeks ago, there was a message like "too many files to compile" popped up by Morrowind. But not this time. Just TESTool crashes during object merging only. Everything else, e.g. levelled list works all right.

I try to exclude as many files from object merge as possible now. Things like BrittlewindFix and other non object related mods (hopefully) can be excluded from the object merge.

I agree, but this whole "cleaning" process only recently came up. Older mods that existed within the first year of morrowind being out are a different story I believe.

Now, if somebody would be so kind, how can removing entries that are identical to morrowind.esm/tribunal.esm/bloodmoon.esm in a mod cause it to "ruin" said mod? I (sort of) understand the GMST's issue, but is that the primary concern when cleaning?

It's a TEStool limit. The dimension of the temporary file it creates while constructing the object list is limited, so if you give it too many/big files to munch it simply crashes.
I use these steps:
0 - for new game only, sort load order of mods so to optimize conflicts (conflicting mods near each other, most important mod coming last)
1. check all my desired mods
2. run TESTool just fix it; TEStool should be able to
- clean all plugins
- create and check Merged_Leveled_Lists.esp
Then it crashes after trying to create Merged_Objects.esp.
3. run Leveled List Resequencer.exe
4. uncheck some big plugin with no relevant dialog/leveled creatures/items
5. run TEStool merge objects options (eventually repeat step 4 until the file Merged_Objects.esp is succesfully created)
6. check again all previously unchecked mods, Merged_Leveled_Lists.esp and Merged_Objects.esp
7. run TEStool merge dialogs options and check the obtained Merged_Dialogs.esp (this is not suggested by a lot of people, I know this could screw some quest, it did not to me until now, anyway)
8. final touch: delete settings.pkl file in Mopy directory, reload Wrye Mash, sort mod visualization by load order and enable Auto set time option. This way, I'm sure load order of mods is preserved by Mash even if I tamper/debug some mod.
Hope this can help

I have Multi Mark, the Unofficial Patch, and Black Mill installed. I've NO problems using the "Just Fix It" option. It is more conservative than using the individual options. YMMV.

Ok then you are not hitting the MW limit; therefore you are hitting a limit in TESTOOL itself. I do not know how much space TESTOOL dedictates to its temp file for merging objects or if there is some hardcoded limit to the number of object conflicts it can handle.

The "Goblin Lab" I'm pretty sure is one you can't clean the GMST's but I do use TESTool with it.

Wow, just as I think I understand all of this, I get new or slightly conflicting info. I have seen so many different opinions on what to merge and not merge. So, just fix-it or the individual merge options should only be done with new games correct? Can you merge leveled lists while using a save game?

And the objects merge. Is this really necessary? I used to have a lot of problems when including this file (though with my mod ignorance at the time, who can tell if that was the ONLY cause of problems) One specific item that comes to mind is the mallet for instruments that popped up in several mods at one time (ices hideaway, rf's funiture shop, BE ect.) Seems that when I merged objects, it made that object unfit for one or the other of the mods (depending on the order). This is my main reason for not merging. But now, It looks as though I should try again. With so many changes and objects altered it's a small nightmare trying to keep it straight!

oh, on a side note. Is it necessary to completely uninstall mods and all their related textures/meshes/icons? I never have really and the thought of trying to figure out what was overwritten and what is unnecessary is.. ... ...

I think there is another one (restricted cell cleaning or something) besides GMSTs, but just to speak about GMSTs, I have tested something:

Giants.esm for example, if you observe it with the enchanted editor, you find 4 GMSTs in it, they are all from the list of the 72 evil ones, but TEStool does not touch them in the cleaning process. The 4 GMSTs are intended BTW, pumaman explained them in detail, they are NOT dirty.

OTOH there is Vampire Embrace, enchanted Editor tells me there is one GMST and it seems to be an intended one. TESTool removes this one and this ruins Vampire Embrace, therefore it is one of them which should not be cleaned by TESTool.

PS: Thank you, abot. I will try your procedure with my object limit issue.

PPS: Finally, I (think I should) have managed it. Blood, sweat and tears... call bear/wolf is all right (did not find the summon fabricant ID..) - ready to rumble.

I guess that you're using TesTool to reorder, and that's why you're tossing settings.pkl. But instead, you can use Mash to do the reordering. Just select the mod to be re-ordered and change its date/time in the details view and then click on "Save". Auto-set time will enforce the new time.

I recommend not cleaning the Unofficial Patch (I've seen some people saying not to clean it, some saying you can clean it in this thread). Basically, the TESTool removes some things that shouldn't be removed (at least the last version I tried did) so some fixes will disappear (not sure if it will create problems or not). This is mainly because I do things in ways I probably shouldn't.

PMB, if you use more than one esp (of the four possible), should NEVER be cleaned, editted, anything......

It destroys the mod.

I know, thanks, but TESTool can easily auto-reorder multiple file dates, while Mash can order only one at a time (or I still didn't understand how to do multiple files reordering, quite possible ).
Adding the feature to drag & drop multiple entries to sort file date would be an awesome improvement to Mash... OK, I know Mash is discontinued and that I could do myself with a "little" Python study, but hope is always in a fan heart
Apart from implementing the ctrl + drag & drop multiple files date sorting, which I recognise could be a too big request, what about a "reset memorized dates to current mod dates" button? this could avoid erasing the configuration file.
The more I tamper with mods, the more I appreciate TESTool and Mash. TESTool is great for cleaning/moving/ordering things, Mash for restoring order/preventing problems and even repairing doublings & relinking broken entries.

Mournhold Clockmaker should not be cleaned with TESTool.

In the ReadMe, I indicated that the mod can be cleaned provided that the option for "Restricted dialog cleaning" is selected (athough the mod is clean in any case and does not require cleaning).

In later tests, I learned that TESTool removes dialogue additions even when this option is selected.

I do not know the reason for this, but I now advise mod users to avoid cleaning any dialogue addition mods with TESTool for this reason. It is quite possible that many users would never encounter a problem caused by the deletion of dialogue entries (the effect is very limited) but the deletion is still unnecessary and damages the mod.

The readme for TEStool claims that "fix it all" button cleaning would be restricted cell cleaning only. I assume this means "fix it all" would be full dialog cleaning, restricted cell cleaning. The option settings seem to be valid for the single step ESP/ESM cleanings. I would like to know if that makes a difference: fix it all vs. single step cleaning... would be nice if someone could test this. I guess Mournhold Clockmaker would be a good candidate for this.

BTW, I just have backupped all of the "don't clean by TEStool" files into another folder. So after a cleansing process I can always overwrite my data files folder with the complete set of backup.espms without the activate/deactivate work (risk reduction also).

I think that pretty much sums up how I feel after reading this thread twice. I'm still confused but hopefully I've gained enough knowledge to make some safe conclusions. (safe as in minimize negative results while gaining most possitive results)

1.don't use testool on dialog intense mods
2.dont use testool on quest mods
3.do use testool on creature mods with the exception of giants
4.do use testool on mods that later weapons/armor and other objects
5.do use testool on mods that alter the level lists
6.use the just fix it feature after removing mods from the play list that you dont want to be effected
7.use a level list resequencer
8.uncheck or delete merged dialogs

I've decided that this is just too advanced of a subject for me to understand currently. So I'm just trying to create a quick reference of safe ways to use testool.

Side note: I'm aware there are exceptions

Please let me know if those statements are not true

It is not that hard as it sounds. I have cleaned 250 active plugins recently by using TEStool like described in this thread:

1) You just activate everything EXCEPT the mods which are listed in this thread.

2) Press "Fix it all" button.

3) Deaktivate ALL of the created merged lists at the end.

4) Activate every wanted mod, the mods which have been deactivated in 1) should be active this time !

5) Create a merged levelled list (only) by TESTool and use the resequencer with this list, activate the merged levelled list.

6) Optional: Create a merged object list, activate it.

I do not have seen any issues with 6) so far, just that I was not able to have all of my 250 mods activated with this step (because of a limitation with TESTool).

Ok, I'm going to edit the first post with a list of mods that you should not clean as stated in this thread. Just makes it a little easier on people as a reference guide.

You can take away the question mark for Korobal Island!

It definitely breaks it!

Done and done.

don't use

D'oh!

I'll get on that.

I found some plugins I use unclean that sound like they might be broke if I clean them with testool/tesame. I somehow feel safer if I know wich plugins should be cleaned instead of knowing wich shouldn't...
The problem is, I have nearly no experience with the construction set so I can't test if a mod is broken by being cleaned myself.
I extracted all the original esp and esm files and cleaned them with testool.
Here are some unclean plugins I'm not sure if I should clean them:
Almalexia, Barilzar, Vivec voice addon (dagoth ur and dagoth gares are clean, strange...)
Missing bounds (1 evil gmst, might control bound [...] spells)
MTT vol. III
give your orders
no thieving start

Is cleaning balancing mods for items problematic (taddeus balanced armor, weapons, objects and alchemy)?

While not disagreeing with one speck of the excellent advice offered by earlier and more expert commentators, I don't think it is that difficult or worrisome.

Using exclusively TESTool3 in 'JustFixIt' mode, ReorderPlugins and simple 'clean save techniques'; I have been running a game for over two years in which I have added and subtracted literally hundreds of mods, and this before I knew not to load Merged Dialogues.
Not saying I haven't had a few problems. I have . . . but they were manageable and repairable and the game ain't bust.
I look forward to learning how to use WryeMash to its full potential but meanwhile my main points are threefold:

1. Morrowind is a complex set of code. The technically erudite amongst us can perceive it at that level. But you do NOT need to understand 'all that' to operate it successfully, not even close.

2. The terrors of dirty saves and doubling are over-rated. Relax - most problems and incompatibilities can be resolved fairly easily, if you can avoid clicking your way into greater difficulty when you encounter a glitch. [Back ups also help. ]

3. Most problems are avoidable by sensible selection of mods that can reasonably be expected to work together, good installation techniques and good 'sanitation'.


{This is an excellent thread that merits preservation. Thank you, Nerra, for reminding me. }

A useful thread . . .

Yep it is if only to get people not use merged dialogues with quest mods a lot of threads are saved for topics not about "why doesn´t my mod setup work"!

I used to use TESTools and eventually got a pattern layed out (which mods to clean, which not to clean etc). I found it very frustrating and often confusing (it took me several hours/days to set up my mods). I eventually stumbled upon Wyre Mash...

... and he lived happily ever after .

The summarized list is now also available at: UESP Wiki: TESTool.

If you want to fill in the notes, or know of additional items that belong on the list, feel free to add them. However, please be sure that a mod belongs on the list before you add it!

A few of us figured out a while back that cleaning the official adamantium plugin with testool deletes the bodyparts assignments in the esp so the armour won't show up on your character when it's equipped....whatever bodypart the armour covers vanishes from view.

Here's one that people were on a kick cleaning that shouldn't be cleaned:

my All That Glitters mod. This mod adds new gems, new gem textures, and locations to find these. All the "cleaning" that was being done has, to date, kept anyone from being able to complete the contest being held.

I suppose I'll get around to updating the Readme for it, but for now, I'll just drop this warning.

Pax,
Indigo

I'm very picky about the mods and you 'bout fifty. Said 'goodbye' to all those pointless clothing and house mods and left only the mods I really use.
Morrowind runs very stable now and I get nice FPS even in Balmora while still having useful mods active.
It's funny how dirty refs never really affected my game. Neither did cleaning them.

I use a nice little tool called TESPCD. It's far more stable and convinient than TESAME and TEStool when it comes to cleaning.

Hmm... I've mostly stopped using TESTool in favor of Mash. Wyre has returned to the community and is constantly answering Q's and improving it and I find that it's a wonderful tool to have.

However that said.

I'm curious to know if anyone has encountered trouble when using it like the troubles caused when cleaning with TESTool?

I saw that post, but I have serious doubts about it. Testool might eliminate the bodyparts themselves if another mod provided them, but it wouldn't eliminate the bodypart assignments. But perhaps someone opened up the cleaned adamantium armor plugin in tescs and resaved. TESCS would discard the assignments when it didn't find the bodyparts (e.g., Tribunal not loaded). So, I'm pretty sure that this is just a case of not using TesTool correctly.


Again, feel free to add that to the list at the UESP wiki. That's the point of a wiki -- anyone can update it. If you add it though, please add a note as to why TesTool cleaning breaks it.

Generally, I think that testool is getting an overly bad rap. It does a lot of stuff that Mash doesn't do, and the repair features are really quite good. But it definitely helps to read the log file and see if it did the right thing.

And a bump for a usefull topic at all times.

Can anyone answer for me if Wrye Mash's repair mod function and repair refs does what TESTool does? Is Fix all in TESTool and using Mash redundant? Do the cautions for cleaning for TESTool apply to Mash?
Pardon my ignorance, and thanks for the help!

It's funny, I spend much more time DL'ing mods, installing mods, tweaking the game, seeking advice on these forums than I do playing!

I believe that this has been answered several times... But...
* Mash's repair function does not do what TESTool's clean function does.
* Currently the only overlap between Mash and TESTool is on leveled list merging -- for which Mash is preferred for several reasons.
* TESTool's "Fix All" includes list merging (superceeded by Mash) and dialog merging (generally not recommended). So, you should use the clean function (and maybe the object merge function), but not the fix all function.

Mash's repair All is only available for savegames. I do not know of any mod for which it causes a problem.

Mash's repair refs function is availble for mods. You should only use it if Mash asks you to do so while repairing a savegame -- which is very rare. (Though, AFAIK it's safe to use on all mods.)

Thanks Wrye! Pardon my rehash.

WOW! I just read the whole thread and my head is hurting

I guess I'll have to read it a few times more to get the full picture. What I do want to know is this: If you should not use dialog merging, how will it behave ingame when there is LOADS of conflicting entries. Checking with TESPCD this seems to be the most common conflict in my setup.

I've just about finished up my 200 mod setup and cleaned every singel mod. From reading this thread I'll better start over again (all original mods are stored in a completely seperate folder, so getting the original .esp files wont be much of a problem). What I do not look forward to is fixing the conflicts in TESPCD again, but I'll do it.

Should I combine the entries in conflicting dialog or will it work if i just leave those alone?

And consider this a bump for an excelent thread

Generally speaking, a lot of mods don't really need to be cleaned if they were made by any of the following people:
Korana
Emma
Grumpy
lochnarus
Qarl
VagabondAngel
Phijama
Centurion
JOG
Baratheon79
AlienSlof
Kalikut
Skydye
Sorcha Ravenlock
UQForgotten
MentalElf
Geonox
Lady Rae
The_inwah
CanadianIce
Rhedd
Adul
MagicNakor
Wizbang
Enmesharra
Calislahn
Cutthroat Mods
Misty Moon
Smite Plight
redwoodtreesprite
StarBoi
Cenobite

All of these people make quality mods, and go out of their way to make sure their mods are 'clean'.

I'm sure I missed some people on the above list...

I'll certanly use this list, but as I understand the last loaded mod will overwrite identical entries from any earlier loaded mod. What will happen to all the conflicting dialog entries for NPC's? Do I have to combine them in TESPCD to make every quest work as intended.

TESPCD seems to be the most accurate (if labour intensive) fixing tool.

The Goblin Lab has hundreds of extraneous GMSTs. I'm very wary of leaving it uncleaned. Can anyone shed any light on this?

Not sure . . . I thought the readme or a release thread cautioned against it?

Looks like the list could use compiled again... Has anyone asked over at Mythic Mods if this could be made into a reference list?

when I ran silgrad tower & the mod with the underground ruin that recolors your armor & the mod that allows you to pick up chairs, through (at the same time & for the first time), everyone I talked to said that they were some apprentance and to talk to thier master.... (always say the same name of who to talk to)

Getting rid of the GMST's in the torture museum mod with testool seemed to completely wonk up some of the locking scripts on the chains. Not really sure how all that stuff is supposed to work to begin with yet though.

In the past I used TEStool all the time, but since switching to Wrye Mash for control of my Merged Lists, I find the need for TEStool greatly reduced. Nowadays I only use it to clean evil GMSTs if I want to add a dirty mod. Perhaps this is because I've gradually accumulated a large selection of mods that seem fairly stable and work well together.

Back in the days before I used Wrye Mash I used to constantly get stuck with serious problems, although I'm sure many of these were caused more by my own ignorance than by TEStool. Now I rarely run into serious problems, and I credit a lot of this stability to Wrye Mash.

This probably won't work for everyone, but here's my suggested revision to the great procedures posted in this thread.


1) Manage activation/deactivation in Wrye Mash. Make sure you tell it to "Lock Times". Also use Mash to alter the dates on any mods that need to be loaded in a specific order. (You can use it for a lot of other great things, too, like managing your texture replacers.)

2) Before using TEStool's "Just Fix It", make sure you de-activate the mods listed in this thread and anything else you know to be already clean.

3) Run the TEStool "Just Fix It", or OPTIONALLY just clean the individual new dirty mods you're adding (You can easily see if a mod is dirty by opening it in Enchanted Editor and looking at the Game Settings section). Just cleaning known dirty mods isn't as easy but it seems less prone to introduce new problems.

4) De-activate (or delete) ALL of the Merged files created by TEStool. (Don't delete Merged Objects if you think you may need it; I don't use it)

5) Run Mash again and re-activate anything you want to add back in (i.e., undo the changes you made in Step 2).

6) Optional: If you want to run Merged Objects, then activate it.

7) Use Mash to create a Mashed Lists.esp (merged levelled lists) and activate it. Edit: for some reason I originally had this marked as Optional, when in fact it is a critical, essential step.

8) Optional: If necessary (as a last resort if you need to remove evil GMSTs from a mod that has good GMSTs in it), activate GMST Fix.esp. Edit: as DWS points out in a followup post, this step is not a good idea if you are running any mods that intentionally change GMSTs that are normally considered evil.

9) Use Mash to update your save games (try to keep them green).

10) If you need to merge some mods in TESCS to get past the 255 limit, try to only merge simple mods that add a few items, etc. Avoid merging large quest mods (although this can sometimes work). When doing this, make sure you don't introduce your own evil GMSTs.

Let me know if I've missed anything critical here.

Well, if you have a non-quest mod and a quest mod affecting the same NPC, just make sure the quest mod is later in the load list. I use TESPCD a lot and it's a great tool, even if it took me about 3 days of tweaking last time I reinstalled all the mods. It was a learning and humbling experience I am comfortable using TESPCD to edit npc stats, but I wouldn't touch dialogue entries with it.

So, a question for the experts: what to do if you have two mods changing dialogue entries on the same NPC? An example that comes to mind is any of LGNPC mods with virtually any other mod that changes stock NPC dialogue...

I'm no expert, but I use LGNPC mods with Emma's Constance and Laura companion mods which add minor new topics without conflict.
I imagine with mods that change the response to the same dialog prompt (eg Background) the last to load would overwright the earlier, but that's an educated guess.

Dev_Akm, you mention checking for dirty mods with the Enchanted Editor. How do you do it? What are you looking for?
Thanks

I agree. This is an improvement of the procedure for Wrye Mash users like me.

6) Merging Objects, I have to handle this manually, because of too many mods to be merged. I remove many entries from merged objects afterwards (NPC entries, some containers that would break herbalism mod and so forth).

8) GMST fix should be unnecessary if the procedure is all right (it is). It would break some mods that alter "evil" GMSTs, e.g. Giants Ultimate.

What I always do to test a new setup:

1) WinGrep searching for the string "GMST" in the data files, filter: *.es?
- Every Plugin that throws up exactly 11, 72 or more GMSTs is suspicious.

2) I start a new game, open console:

player->addspell bm_summonbear
player->addspell bm_summonwolf
player->addspell bm_summonbonewolf

I test the spells if they summon the creatures correctly. If they don't, you have got a bad apple in the bunch, 100% sure.

I have done both the merge and the TESTOOL clean. Right after, Windows shut down the PC and said there was a critical error that had to be reported to Microsoft. Is this related? How do I correct or undo this if possible?

Thanks for the help.

Open the mod in Enchanted Editor and look for the GMST section. Expand it and browse through the entries. If they look like evil entries, they should probably be deleted. I know this sounds a bit vague, so here's a screenshot:

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c209/dev_akm/GMSTs.jpg

In the left pane, scroll down to Game Settings. If it says (72), they're probably evil. Click on it to expand and see the names of the entries. If the first batch all deal with werewolves, you can be pretty certain they all need to be nuked.

To nuke them, check the box next to Game Settings (72) and all the GMST entries will be marked. Now you'll get new options in the right pane. Click on Delete Marked to delete all the marked evil entries. Save it, quit, and test. If something went wrong, Enchanted Editor keeps a backup of the unmodified file named with a .bak extension in the same directory where you saved the changes.

Hope this helps.

DWS' suggestion of using WinGrep to look for the string GMST in your mods is a really good idea. In fact, either WinGrep or TES Conflict Detector work really well for identifying lots of problems, such as hunting down which mod is causing an error. When you get an error, look in Warnings.txt for the error string, copy the ID of the offending script or item, etc., and use either tool to search through your mods for references to that ID.

Ha, six mods I have, no wonder my game is so screwed up.

I'm a complete newb at this. Sorry if this has been asked before, but what exactly is "cleaning" of the plugins good for? Does it speed the game up? Fix small errors in scripts?

What is the point of cleaning and merging if it may potentially cause more bad than good?

This is a long thread and it's hard to read it all, but you should try. The answer to your question is discussed at great length here already.

In a nutshell, a dirty mod can crash your game and otherwise render it unplayable. Unless you ONLY play pre-cleaned mods, it is critical.

The most recent (i.e. best) versions of the Construction Set automatically add these bad game settings to a mod under certain conditions, so it's very easy for a mod creator to accidentally introduce the problem without intending to.

So in the vast majority of cases, cleaning solves many more problems than it causes.

However, for a select few mods, cleaning them may break them. These are mods that intentionally change default game settings (GMSTs). Hence the discussion about which mods should not be cleaned and how to avoid accidentally cleaning them.

Hope that helps.

About WI,
Wizards Islands Main script controling snow, levitation and about 6 other factors required us to modify the core of tribunal script. So by cleaning WI you would break our script, wich would probably give out quite a few errors in the long term (snow in balmora after complleting WI for example).

I tried to clean WI from all the other entries and left that one there, but there is a few ones that seemed important also and that I decided to left there (Not being a tes tool expert and all I didnt want to break something).

Not sure about this but a mod you shouldn't clean with TESTool: Vgreetings?

Last time I ran this through TESTool a large number of Dialogs were deleted, now as I understand things VGreetings messes around with Dialog entries etc to give you all those verbals. If I clean the mod with TESTool will I lose all that funky talking goodness?

Ok, first of all a big THANKS to ps33 for directing me here as this has been very enlightening (with a side order of overwhelming)

Now a question. Having realized the error of my cleaning no no mods with TES Tool, if I go and redownload/install those same mods, then clean my existing save games, will everything be back on the up and up again?

...or am I hosed

I don't get it.

My understanding is that TESTool compares the mod entries to the entries in Morrowind/Tribunal/Bloodmoon esm's and only removes the entries that exactly match. Why isn't this good for every mod?

Yep.

Excellent

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v644/har...isonobjgmst.jpg

Not sure how familiar any of you are with the prison objects mod. These are the 11 GMST settings in it that the CS shows. Testool cleans them out allright but it seemed to totally fracture the locking scripts for the manacles when I did that so I went back to the uncleaned esp and it seems to work fine. Any way to know if these are harming the game setup in some way?

No idea if they are harmful or not, I guess not. But just remove them with TESAME or Enchanted Editor, problem solved. :-)

I did use testool to get rid of them. But it seemed to break the mod. I think it's set up to require at least some of them to work...but 11 is such a suspicious number.

I think those are the Tribunal GMST entries. 11 entries were added by Tribunal and 61 were added by Bloodmoon. Add them up and we get the infamous 72 entries.

Part of the evil GMST problem can be checked easily. They break some spells: [but I guess this is more a check for the bloodmoon part]

bm_summonbear, bm_summonwolf, bm_summonbonewolf

The spells can be added by console. If you cast them and nothing happens, no bear/wolf/bonewolf appears, then one of the plugins contains evil GMSTs. They should break some (Bloodmoon?) quests also, but this is not as easy to test at the beginning of a new game.

BTW, one of the things that should be broken by GMSTs is "summon fabricant"... what's that? I do not find it under spells.

@harborgolfer: ps33 said you'd better remove the 11 GMSTs by other tools. Do not use TEStool with some mods, because it cleans more than GMSTs which breaks some mods (listed in this thread).

Gotcha...I deleted the GMST's with EE (1st time I've ever actually used it for anything)...and cleaned things up with wrye mash. Everything is nice and blue...hopefully I'm good to go.

That's because Adamantium armor is included in Tribunal. So the body parts are removed because they duplicate the entries in Tribunal.

This is only true if you run the cleaned adamantium plug in without Tribunal.

If a mod changes one or more GMST's from the value in Morrowind/Tribunal/Bloodmoon esm's, those GMST's are not removed by TESTool. So I see no problem running TESTool on mods that intentionally change GMST's.

I don't even bother to clean them with TESTOOL anymore because it can cause more problems than it's worth...

GMST Vacine by Wrye FTW!

Opps double post. sorry.

Just a little bump, since this is IMO a very important thread.

Exactly! TESTool does ONLY that! period. You just have to know how to use it.

And the 'merge objects' function IS really helpful, and sometimes necessary.

Example: You have NPC Joe Woo. Mod#1 gives to Joe Woo a set of obsidian armor. Mod#2 gives to Joe Woo one pair of gloves. If you load Mod#2 after Mod#1, Joe Woo will get ONLY the gloves and NO obsisian armor. How are you going to have Joe Woo get both?? Well, by using TesTool and the 'Merge Objects' function.
NOTE: Even merging the mods in the CS, Joe Woo will get ONLY the objects from the mod that is 'active'!

*if you want to merge the two mods what will you do?
1. Run TESTool 'Merge Objects' for the two mods
2. Merge the two mods in the CS to Mod#3
3. Merge Mod#3 with 'Merged Objects.esp' with 'Merged Objects.esp' ACTIVE!

Can you explain that last bit, please, grVulture?

Why, in this case, do you need to have one of the merging files active when normally you just load them to combine?
[Or is that simply a difference between merging in TESTool and merging in TESCS?]

The active mod is the one which gets priority from the CS on matters like the one from my example. It's always safer to set one of the two merged mods as active (the one that you consider most important to you than the other) because you never know which changes will be taken by the CS into account. It could be the ones from the last loaded mod, but since I am not sure, I always set one as active - the one that I want to 'override' any objects that both mods alter or affect in any way.

Merging will put objects from both mods in one affected cell, will merge scripts, etc., but when it comes to objects with similar IDs, the CS will have to decide which one to include in the merge mod, and which one to dump. Merging subrecords of one object is not implemented. And because an NPC is an 'object' with one ID, the CS will take only one 'instance' of him/her into account when merging.

That's the best I can do to explain it, I suck when it comes to explaining things, sorry...

[EDIT] What TESTool "Merge Objects" function does is take both instances of Joe Woo from Mod#1 and Mod#2 and make a new ESP(Merged Objects.esp) with a new Joe Woo who has now objects(armor, weapon, clothing, spells, potions, etc.) from both mods (Mod#1 & Mod#2).

So if you want to merge the two mods(Mod#1 & Mod#2), you go on and merge them, but the CS (and every other editor I've tried which does automatic merging) will not merge the NPC 'inventories'. That's where the 'Merged Objects.ecp' comes to solve this problem. You just take the combined mod(Mod#3) and merge it with the 'Merged Objects.esp' to a new esp(Mod#4). But you have to be sure the changes from the 'Merged Objects.esp' are taken into account and not them from Mod#3, otherwise this merging is useless.

The result will be that instead of having Mod#1, Mod#2, and Merged Objects.esp checked in your list, you now have just one mod (Mod#4) to do the same thing.

Of course merging is not recommended for all mods, rather for similar and small ones. Bigger mods need a lot of experience and 'partially' step-by-step merging...

I am pretty sure about 2 things:

CS merging, load order counts, in case of same IDs, the newer plugin overwrites the older one.

Scripts never get merged, neither by CS nor by TESTool. Scripts with the same ID would be overwritten by the younger plugin.

Yes, of course scripts wouldn't be merged, it would be mostly unlogical....

When i said 'merge scripts' I meant it will make a mod that will have the scripts from both previous mods.

It's good to know that load order counts. But if you set a plugin to active, this setting will overide load-order setting. Double-checked, 100% sure.

Yes, the plug-in set as active loads last, no matter which load order you have set.

Nice thread, I learned a lot about TESTool and GMST entries here.

Sometimes ago i've used TESTool - but now i don't.
Maybe that it works correctly after merging objects or dialogs.
But it can also be (almost sure) that the game after some days crashs without warning.
And this comes def. from merging objects or dialogs with TESTool.
Files are missing. ... This functions are error balanced ...

Now i only use TESAME and Wyre Mash 0.62 and my 200 plugins/mods works fine

I wanted to add one of my favorite mods, A Flock of Seagulls to the list.

I've noticed that about 50% of the times I've cleaned it with TESTool the Seagulls no longer make any noises afterwards.

Well I decided I have to use Testool because without it, the mods don't run at all.
Too many give primary errors upon loading.
Like wrong source files (Only got GOTY)

And I'm too lazy to learn how to use Testool properly so I only use "Just fix it"
(nice how that turns out to be the best way anyway!!)

I read that Leeloo said not to clean her NPC Replacer mods with TEStool either.

Its now very confusing. I dont know if cleaning the mod with TEStool will break it now. I would love it if there was a giant list stickied at the top of the forum that listed all the mods that shouldnt be cleaned with TEStool.

I actually have just been using morrowind enchanted editor. That's it. Load up mods and see if they have 11, 61, or 72 gmst. If so, delete the gmst and I'm good to go. No more s's infront of summoning skills.

That is not quite the right way to use it. There are some things that TESTool does well. Losing sounds for mods is not one of them. moreover you need the leveled list resequencer or the mods will also not function properly.

That being said This thread is far too often over reactionary. Just fix it deletes only the evil 72 GMSTs. The better way to use TESTool is to run the clean option where it places the new files in a clean subdirectory. Then look at the log file to see what it did. If you like it then keep it. Otherwise let it go and delete it. The merge the objects and leveled lists. TESTool does more things right than wrong. It only deletes the 72 GMSTs or a GMST that is the same as a default setting. Note if your creating a mod and change a GMST and then later decide to return it to normal, that GMST is part of your mod even though it is at the normal setting. TESTool cuts a reset GMST out of the mod. the CS cannot do that, so be careful what is reported as TESTool does and does not do.

ewwwww i was considering using that too!!! you dont know how many times I almost hit just fix it and didnt at the last minute!!!!!!!
Im deleting it right now!! if a mod doesnt want to work and I get ahold of an author then Ijust woulnt use it.
better safe than sorry!

Is there a specific reason as to whether I should clean Blood & Gore or not? I did clean it, but it did not yield too many deleted objects (as much as I can remember). Is that alright?

Just a friendly "nudge".

I realize from what I have read here that I should not clean Vampire Embrace with Testool; but what about merging the leveled lists and then using resequencer on it?

Should you keep it unchecked for that as well? That will make no changes to the VE mod itself, but ensure that it is properly included in the newly created leveled list.esp file.

Just wondering.

Yes, you can (and should) put it in the merged leveled list.

Thank you, I did.

Though the log claims it did not add anything to the merged list file. So maybe it is not necessary for VE.

No it's not necessary for that one...but still best to have all esp(m)'s checked when making those merged lists...testool or mash will just dig out the info it needs to merge them and ignore the rest. They may not do anything if you have no mods that alter the levelled lists but it won't hurt either.

I think this thread should be pinned......

Bump, because this is a very informative thread.......

ive used testool to clean the mods i have but does anyone know if its okay to clean the GCD mod.

It is safe to clean GCD, though all the plugins and the patches are already clean. There is no reason to clean cleaned mods.

Generally speaking, mods created by experienced mod makers don't need to be cleaned.

Ok. I see that the debate over whether to clean the mods or not is still going on. But I do have a question.

What do you do in the instance of "Multi Mark"? It's true that you are not to use TES Cleaner on this mod, but the mod also requires that you do use the cleaner on all other mods, in order for the Multi Mark to work properly.

So I'm guessing you either clean everything and hope nothing was deleted in the cleaning or not use Multi Mark at all? That would be the pits, as I love Multi Mark.

I'm just getting into modding heavy and trying to learn everything I can about it, so please bare with me. Wish someone could come up with a good cleaning method.


stryder420

Use Improved Teleportation instead.

I'd like to know what's special about multi-mark, too, though. Edit: From the readme:
"This mod uses some Hexedited features not supported by the TESCS. If you resave the plugin with the TESCS it gets broken with this effect. So take the plugin files supplied with original archive and never edit them with the TESCS."

I can think of one minor issue caused by TESTool - the Fighters Guild boss is changed in Tribunal.esm, and the Unofficial Patch restores him to the original Morrowind.esm version. TESTool deletes him from the patch because of this.

Well Diviner, "Multi Mark" does work very simply. Allows you to set 12 different marks and recall to any of them. Works good too. Just cast mark and set the new mark point.

I use it to get to places I need to revisit regularly......ie......my diamond mines to make sure my works are happy and my house, (that does not have any teleport service).

Was a very useful mod. Never tried "Improved Teleportation". Will have to give that a try.

I've tried both mods, I meant what makes it special in the sense easily broken by re-saving it. I sort of answered that myself after a glance in the readme.

Sorry. Guess I should have firgured that out. So does Improved Teleportation work well?

I have been using Improved Teleportation for a long time, it works great. The only problem I had was using it with vampire embrace. However VE has a option to turn off teleportation that will fix the problem.

Bumb!

Very useful topic.

Are the mods cleaned if you use the JUST FIX IT option? And if so, how do I undo it? I just cleaned Vampire Embrace and Wakim's enhancements.

Yes, they are cleaned if you do this. No way to undo it but to reinstall the mods, I'm afraid.

Bugger.

Well, I'm so glad i read this thread. Thanks!

Reinstall the ESPs, to be more specific.
One could check the TESTool log and manually clean some things (in TESPCD, say).

What's wrong with cleaning WGI? Sure there are GMST changes in some module(s), but they aren't cleaned since they aren't identical to the Bethesda default values.

OK, the problem with cleaning Wakim's Game Improvements is that mod is supposed to change GMSTs from the default values. Cleaning it kind of makes the mod pointless.....

For the people who are going to need to see and use this list.

I gotta be honest, this really is the most confusing 'helpful' thread I've ever read. As well-intended as it is, and as useful as a few tidbits of the information are, I am glad this isn't pinned. That one little pin would cause massive haemmorhaging.

I still haven't seen a definitive answer - if a mod has been otherwise freed of evil GMSTs, is there any actual benefit to cleaning it? I mean, in practise, does the process actually do anything else? That isn't purely academic? Putting aside any disdain for messiness in general? Is this redundant information really going to cause any trouble?

The common exchange I've seen seems to go something like this:
"Well, why use TESTool then? If I'm not seeing any problems, why risk causing new ones?"
"You should use TESTool because most of the time it won't cause any problems."

'It usually doesn't break things' doesn't seem like much of an endorsement, but aside from fixing the evil GMSTs, that's the most common reason I've seen given for people to use it.

...I wanted to somehow segue into the next bit, but I can't think of a strong connection so here's an awkward jump-cut instead:

TESTool wants to remove a decent amount of stuff from the plugins that Bethesda has released. TES Plugin Conflict Detector also labels a bunch of those plugins' entries as 'unclean,' as they're the same as the default entries. They run the gamut from CELL entries to DOOR entries to STAT entries, and in the case of bcsounds.esp, even GMSTs - though none of them are of the evil variety.

Then I realised that a lot of these unclean entries were based on TESPCD comparing them to the Bloodmoon or Tribunal ESM files. I'm pretty sure those files didn't exist when the plugins were released, so that's kind of confusing. And I am confused.

So it's the same question again, I guess - is there any actual downside to leaving this sort of thing in there?

I think it would be best to let this thread disappear into the void please don't bump.

For the record i have used Testool religiously to clean hundreds of mods including many of the mods mentioned in this thread and haven't had any problems at all. Here are a few tips for using Testool safely and successfully.


1. Never use the ' Just Fix It' option, it is as buggy as hell , if anything will corrupt your game ' Just Fix It' will. It once corrupted my game so badly that the only way to fix it was to re-install my game from scratch, i never did find out what it altered to do that.

2. Don't waste your time with the merge levelled items, objects or dialogs as it is common knowledge those options don't work and merging dialogs can make your game unplayable. I use Wrye Mash to merge lelled lists these days, though using testool to make the merged list esp followed by Horatio's levelled list resequencer also works.



Only ever use Testools 2 options at the top of the list to clean esp/esm after highlighting one then click on 'execute'. Testool will get rid of the evil GMST's and redundant data entries and that is pretty much all it does, so don't expect too much from it. As mentioned already i have used this method to clean esp/esm followed by execute hundreds of times and never had any problems.

I have only had two mods that the conflict detector found to be unclean. The first was a combination of two versions of a mod, no surprise there that it wasn't clean. After cleaning it, the newly created mod works great. I can't say if it would have worked without the cleaning, as I didn't bother to test it until I'd already cleaned it.

The second mod was Laura Craft, and it only had a few supposed unclean entries. However, when I loaded the newly cleaned mod in the CS (to change Laura's hair), it complained about missing dialogue, so I reinstalled the original esp. I should have trusted Emma on that one, as she does great work.

That is one mod i use myself and know that you can use Testool safely with it.

If you use the 'clean esp/esm' then Testool will delete 27 redundant/dirty references out of the esp and will generate the following log entries;

File: Tribun_Laura_3_0.esp
==============================
deleted STAT in_c_rich_room_side
deleted DOOR in_c_door_wood_square
deleted STAT furn_com_r_chair_01
deleted CONT Com_Chest_11_empty
CELL 17 8, Azura's Coast Region
CELL 17 7, Azura's Coast Region
deleted CELL 17 7, Azura's Coast Region ; empty cell
CELL 9 -14, Azura's Coast Region
CELL 7 22, Dagon Fel
CELL 3 -9, Vivec
CELL Vivec, Foreign Quarter Plaza
deleted AMBI
CELL Vivec, Telvanni Underworks
deleted AMBI
CELL Laura's house
CELL Laura's basement
CELL Brindja
deleted INFO 218997615188231249 ; Bribe Success
deleted INFO 224091285626087204 ; Bribe Success
deleted INFO 3832139402051823602 ; Greeting 0
deleted INFO 7817111001232614388 ; Greeting 0
deleted INFO 23349198911001418656 ; Greeting 1
deleted INFO 1007531851272425485 ; Greeting 1
deleted INFO 3223324127987614626 ; Greeting 5
deleted INFO 10846297472227562 ; Greeting 5
deleted INFO 27518247831477521212 ; Greeting 5
deleted INFO 133928217305419560 ; Bribe Fail
deleted INFO 34516565177822785 ; Bribe Fail
deleted INFO 792732444483714759 ; Background
deleted INFO 1905968842607317408 ; Background
deleted INFO 787419786402628286 ; Background
deleted INFO 321254531168523746 ; Attack
deleted INFO 291042261518712192 ; Hello
deleted INFO 2195928081229820053 ; Hello
deleted INFO 16462055017136588 ; Idle
deleted INFO 753818976300886755 ; Idle
deleted INFO 1352870573219920531 ; Hit
==============================
Saved: Tribun_Laura_3_0.esp


If you check out what the dirty dialogue references are then you will find that Testool has done its job correctly and identified and deleted a lot of junk dialogue responses out of the esp.

Eg, the first dialogue response

deleted INFO 218997615188231249 ; Bribe Success

That is spoken by the ghost npc Ane Teria who resides in the 'Cavern of the Incarnate' and is not in any way affected by the Laura Craft mod, yet this dialogue entry is included in Emma's mod.

If you load the 'cleaned' Laura Craft esp in the construction set you do indeed get a warning message to alert you that the The Following String Is Different ..................... but not that it is broken or anything. This is possibly because testool simply deletes information but leaves a gap where that data was, which the CS is able to identify that something has changed ?

The bottom line of all this is that on the plus side, Testool deletes 27 redundant/ dirty references and reduces the size of the esp by 6 kb , on the negative side you get several harmless warning messages pertaining to deleted dirty/redundant dialogue responses if you load the mod in the construction set.

Testool does not harm the Laura Craft mod as i know to and you can use the 'clean esm/esp' option if you wish.

It was a great idea

Is it safe to clean all the official plugins? (they aren't)
I use them all except Entertainer and Bittercoast Sounds, but didn't want to touch them yet...
TESPCD shows just some "___ is identical to default entry. (Unclean Entry)" warnings, so it probably doesn't matter anyway, but I'm new to this and would like to know if it's safe to clean this up with TESTool...

I've cleaned the official plugins with TESTool and haven't run into any problems.

You could use TESPCD's "Auto delete unclean" option: that'll remove the Unclean Entries (i.e. objects in the ESP exactly the same as objects in a master file (ESM)).

I know this is long after this post but I made a happy discovery: you can select a bunch of files for TESTool to clean at one time, and the log file will list the changes for ALL the files cleaned, including that a file did not need cleaning. Unless something causes a crash of course.

I've got shortcuts for my TES stuff including TESTool and the log file it generates in my quick launch list.

Do we have an updated list?

Check the UESP wiki. There's a list there I believe.

I had no idea , I loved that mod the way , I think I cleaned it with tes tool , but didnt recall any screaming dummies

Does this list exist anywhere else???

Yes, I am practicing my thread necromancy. How am I doing?

actuay im glad u reviived this thead b/c i hadn't seen it before and its very helpfull. How ever im using Vampire Embrace/Hunger/Realism, MCA 5.2, unofficial patch and others, but i used the just fix it option and i haven't had any HUGE problems. Now granted it will randomly ctd, so i was wondering is i unchecked VE and the Unofficial Patch and click just fix it, would it work? Also should i not use it on the other vampire mods either?

so can any1 help? it'd be greatly appreciated

so no?

he he.
Just to point out.
I believe not only should you not clean multimark, you shoudn't even open it with the CS.
Multimark is not to be touched except with a 10 foot (*Padded*), specialized redating tool (eg wyre mash's redating tool).
It's very fagile.

Btw it also should be kept at the bottom of the load order, hence the need for the redating tool.

Well that's what i heard anyway...

can anyone confirm?

Well, you can *open* MultiMark with anything, but you should never save it. It has been hex-edited to offer some functionality that the CS doesn't understand (and hence breaks).

It might be possible to edit MultiMark with a very low level editor like the Enchanted Editor, but I haven't tried, and wouldn't recommend it.

I've had some episodes with Merged Objects where it set the health values of certain NPCs to zero, so I no longer use it. Merged dialogs was also a problem, since it was only experimental by the time Ghostwheel left the scene and was known to cause massive problems in spoken dialog...

Since TESTool is still being discussed in newer threads, this old info could still be of value.

You shouldn't clean my very own Tireless Running mod, well.. or GMST's. I don't think there's anything else that really needs to be cleaned in it, I checked before releasing it.

Which means that you *can* clean it with TESTool - it simply won't do anything.

Do you get paid for mentioning your mods? :D

Don't clean any dialogue heavy mods like Kateri's Julan mod, any of Emma's companion mods or my Jasmine one. The reason being, is that TESTool can break dialogue and cause the mod to not function as it was intended. I know Kat and Emma thoroughly clean their mods, so there's no reason to use TESTool on them.

The Unofficial 'Unofficial Morrowind Patch' Project is very clean, one can even run it through TESTool if one wishes, as long as the restricted dialogue option is checked. Without it checked, it'll delete a lot of the responses used for proper sorting.

Not one post here has mentioned a great benefit that TESTool provides - easy, fast cleaning of unecessary AMBI and WGHT records.

Whenever an interior is touched in the CS, the ambient lighting and water height information gets included if the mod is saved. The cell doesn't even need to have anything changed in it, just loading/looking at it in the CS is enough for this to happen. Lighting mods will be impacted the most because of this.

Also, the CS insists on creating unnecessary empty CELL records for some of the locations in the game when saving.

As long as the mod has no dialog changes, it is easy and desirable to have TESTool clean these AMBI / WGHT / empty CELL entries. If the mod has dialog changes then TESTool's log is invaluable in indicating the cells that need to be cleaned via a 3rd party tool (TESEME, TESPCD, EE). Trying to use the CS again to edit out these entries would be fruitless since as soon as you saved they would return - it might be possible to flag them as ignored in the CS thru the mod details tho, but I think the records would still remain in the mod taking up space (have not actually tried this; really no reason to).

As has been said before:
* Do NOT 'Jus Fix It'.
* Restrict cell and dialog cleaning.
* It's probably best to Save results in 'Clean' subfolder - the original filename will get appended with 'Clean '; let it do this so your original remains intact!
* TESTool log is your friend! Review it after every cleaning/merging attempt.

TESTool is a great app which compliments the other fine tools our community has provided us. I for one would not think of just using a single one without the others!


[edit] And as far as the thread topic goes... I'm advocating that every mod should be run thru TESTool to see if AMBI / WGHT / empty CELL records are found. I've found even clean mods to have these. And if they are the only reported conflicts, by all means clean them!

Yes I did, I got paid A MILLION DOLLARz!!!

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Ok back on topic, you shouldn't clean official mods.

Can you give an explanation as to why for the uninitiated?

*Bump* , great topic!

Instead of bumping threads that have reached their post count limit, you could report it to be closed and start a new one.